- Talkn StangJune 10, 2013 at 8:19 PM
come on people...we are stuck at 3...somebody unstick us
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Talkn StangJune 10, 2013 at 8:22 PM
im not going to bed until its signed completely people so the sooner we get it signed i can get it to the reporter and then i can go to sleep. I deserve a good night sleep you know, lol
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Talkn StangJune 10, 2013 at 8:31 PM
i personally want to thank everyone who has been a part of this blog and has had something to say. DueProcess is not law enforcement by the way, lmao. Not to worry, he is like family to me and we owe him alot of gratitude for creating this well, thought out blog. Now lets get those damn signatures.
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Talkn StangJune 10, 2013 at 8:39 PM
so we are going to let 3 signatures hold up progress so i can't do my thing with the media? come on now. 3 more please
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aladdinJune 10, 2013 at 9:13 PM
For everybody that still needs the ICAC info you can get it at the other blog:
ICAC OPERATIONAL AND INVESTIGATIVE STANDARDS AND FEDERAL LAW- ReplyDelete
Prince MachiavelliJune 10, 2013 at 10:12 PM
My wifeand I signed it along with my best friend
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Justice MyersJune 11, 2013 at 1:02 AM
First off I'm very curious about something...
Anyone on here who's loved one has be CONVICTED of this shit, exactly what defense was raised in court/trail? Was it they just didn't believe it was a minor, was it they had no intentions on having sex with this "minor" OR did they state LAW, and make the government look like the evil creatures that they are? I ask because, if they didn't state law and show everything law enforcement did wrong then that sort of brings me a LITTLE peace of mind and hope. (I could be wrong, but I personally haven't seen anyone take this path as a defense)
Moving on, is the editor trying to dispute something/doesn't believe something or whatever it may be? Something simple would be to just show law stating for example, law enforcement can't use sex at all, and then showing how they have, or a child must be at immediate risk of victimization, and obviously showing how NO child was at risk, and that should suffice.
I really think we should be thinking about a rally ASAP! That way we WILL get the coverage, it's not going to be a coincidence that 20 people's family/friends (just a estimation of attendees) all were searching for kids on ADULT SITES, I guarantee no one will be afraid to speak because of all the support around, law enforcement will probably want to get some airtime to try and defend themselves which would be GREAT because they always prove our defense when they speak, onlookers will be able to see signs/posters etc. Really people I don't understand why it has taken this long. It's one of the best things that can be done right now on our part, it really is!
I was thinking maybe someone could create a poll on a website with many viewers asking something along the lines of...(well I don't quite know yet lol but I'm throwing that idea out there, so maybe some great minds could think of a good question/s to ask to the general public). Another idea just popped into my head, but not sure if it can be done. Is it possible that maybe just like the petition to pardon men arrested, if we get enough signatures, could one be created to "make" law enforcement give up the ICAC Training Manuals? or can ONLY a judge grant those papers???
Every once in a while there's that extremely simple (but equally great) "as seen on tv" invention that everyone says "why the hell didn't I think of that"? I feel like there's SOMETHING we just haven't thought of quite yet that will be our breakthrough. Keep thinking OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE!
One more thing, @TalknStang do you think you could find a psychologist to work with you and back up our claims. For instance, if we can get a psychologist to first off help sway the editor to do the story, maybe by saying something along the lines of "I've been hired many times and have done tons of these cases, and very rarely do I get people who were actually looking for children, the men in these particular cases are looking for sex with adults not children" and he could say the same thing on tv as well. When I met with the psychologist, I felt like he was confused, and kinda disgusted as to why I was targeted.
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Stop entrapmentJune 11, 2013 at 12:58 PM
I was arrested last October join operation spider web in Lee county I pled not guilty and I'm fighting it I was in an adult web dating sites looking for an adult to have sex with the decoy never told me how old the miners supposedly was until the tail end of the conversation and it was as a joke I told him I don't hook up with Minors I planned to meet him at a public restaurant 2 actually verify the person I was talking to online was actual person I never met anyone went to anyone's house Motel hotel I am using the ICAC to fight my charge. I'm trying to show police misconduct I would never have met a minor the pictures were adults and it's a site you have to verify you are an adult three separate times. I hope my judge agrees then everyone else to challenge.
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Talkn StangJune 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM
email me talknstang@yahoo.com
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Talkn StangJune 11, 2013 at 2:02 PM
cop or not? seems very suspicious. just got word of this one....lets expose this BS ad. Get the word out...i bet you it won't be no time and this is deleted
http://www.tagged.com/tallygrlamber
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Prince MachiavelliJune 12, 2013 at 8:11 AM
that is a a companion website. They use the same name and picture for the Tallahassee craigslist stings. They use the site you posted as a set up. for example: You see the ad on craigslist with the same name. You google it to see if its legit and this and a couple other websites pop up with the same name and picture. the police use it later against you saying that you did all the research on this person and still talked to a minor through craigslist. (this is factual information from a deposition from a TPD officer). This picture and name is the same one I was arrested for for just talking online. fortunately I didn't google or do research. I was on an adult site looking for adult companionship. Oh and they use multiple computer screens for each of those sites just in case you decide to send a message. Sorry police... I just let your secret out :)
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Talkn StangJune 11, 2013 at 2:06 PM
and to all you Amber, Jesse's, and cops posting fake ads...FU YOU ARE THE CRIMINALS!
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Talkn StangJune 11, 2013 at 5:33 PM
wow, i think i need an assistant with all the emails i get from people. I love it! You are not alone! Thanks for all the support...we are doing all we can at this time to put an end to the madness. This blog has exploded big time and that is what it is going to take. It is not the voice of one, it is the voices of many. I've got one thing to say to law enforcement, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time." Honest Abe
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Roger ClondikeJune 12, 2013 at 3:14 PM
I contacted Talkn Stang a while back. I wanted to be one of the people to interview, but Im afraid that I admitted to much to the cops when I was arrested. I was on Plentyoffish.com and didnt even go to anyones house. I didnt speak with a minor, I didnt respond to a minors profile. It is an adult website. I was going to be picked up by the supposed mother at a mcdonalds. But of course it was a set up.
I was arrested and I was scared that I told them exactly what they wanted to hear instead of the truth. I did not want to jeopardize this for you guys. My fate may be sealed because of my big stupid mouth but you guys can still make it.
I was court ordered to see a therapist here in orlando. She is VERY supportive of getting the laws changed. I know someone in a previous post asked if a psychologist could helps us. This WOMAN can and I am almost certain she WILL!
Nancy E. Delong, MS
1000 Savage Ct #203 Longwood, FL 32750
(407) 595-9571
My name here is not my real name but if you want to contact me at eliteauto407@gmail.com I can give you my name and you can let her know that I referred you. She thinks very highly of me as a person and sympathizes greatly with our situation.
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Talkn StangJune 12, 2013 at 6:28 PM
i am going to put my CBS contact in touch with Ms. Delong here soon. Great job, this could be the help we need to get this story going. AWESOME
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freedom070476June 12, 2013 at 4:44 PM
For devotedgf, yes, can you please send me the MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING manual, sting operations manual. also this one 2012 CF 000204 STATE OF FLORIDA VS NOLIN, RYU A. My email address is freedom070476@gmail.com.
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devotedgfJune 12, 2013 at 4:54 PM
I sent them to you.
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Talkn StangJune 12, 2013 at 6:34 PM
Nolin apparently wants to put his case, which was tossed, behind him from what i have been informed. I have heard his was the "perfect" scenario to expose these stings. Nolin, if you read this, come forward and tell your story. Help out the rest of us
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 12, 2013 at 6:58 PM
KEEP TALKING AND SHARING INFO PEOPLE!!! GREAT WORK!!! We are always here watching, helping, and planning.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 12, 2013 at 6:59 PM
WE SAY AGAIN: WHAT'S UP WITH THE RALLY?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 12, 2013 at 7:11 PM
THE "PEDOPHILES" ARE FIGHTING BACK FLORIDA! HEY SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION, YOU LYING, FAT, HYPOCRITICAL GOAT F******: WE ARE STILL HERE!!! THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS A B**** AINT IT! Just find your way around it and then maybe you can come arrest us for saying we f***** your daughters and your wives because you all are neglecting them with made up, BS crimes.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 12, 2013 at 7:13 PM
Ok, I'm calm now. Sorry, that was completely uncalled for. Or was it?
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 13, 2013 at 9:11 AM
For devotedgf, can you please send me the MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING manual, sting operations manual. also this one 2012 CF 000204 STATE OF FLORIDA VS NOLIN, RYU A. My email address is
Havanawebsolutions@gmail.com
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Talkn StangJune 13, 2013 at 6:27 PM
Gov. Scott....save face now and shut down these stings and spare yourself from any further embarrassment. Florida courts have successfully granted 2 entrapment hearings! The tide is turning even more and our fight gets stronger by the day.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 13, 2013 at 6:53 PM
HERE ARE THE TWO CASES THAT WERE DISMISSED ON ENTRAPMENT AS A MATTER OF LAW IN MANATEE COUNTY!
STATE VS. ANDREW MANISCALCO, CASE NO. 2012-CF-003160
STATE VS. SIVASANKAR JOTHILINGAM, CASE NO. 2012-CF-003179
these cases prove egregious govt conduct during the internet stings. THE COURTS HAVE FINALLY STARTED TO RULE THE WAY THE LAW MANDATES!
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Talkn StangJune 13, 2013 at 7:18 PM
They should have listened to us from the get-go, lol all we are are normal law abiding citizens!
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Talkn StangJune 13, 2013 at 8:45 PM
ok, i am pretty darn sure that we have everything we need to get this story run now. Give me about a week or so, but there is nothing that should stop the story from moving forward now that we have court rulings to help our cause. THANK GOD
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 14, 2013 at 5:29 AM
Guys can we get some documents on those 2 entrapment ruling? Thanks. Talk stang can you send me the document where it shows that them cant post on adults websites or use an adult profile? Thanks guys we are going to get justice!! God is in our side
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Prince MachiavelliJune 14, 2013 at 7:12 AM
If you go to the Manatee County Clerk of Court website you can download the documents from there. I was able to with ease. You just have to type the name of the person involved in the case in the search field. It will then bring up the whole case docket and on the left side of the docket you will see a document symbol.... click on that and it will bring up a PDF.
Here is the link
http://www.manateeclerk.org/Home/tabid/57/Default.aspx
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 14, 2013 at 7:30 AM
Thanks prince. I got it.
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Talkn StangJune 14, 2013 at 7:31 AM
Operation Redemption II is coming soon peeps! There is no foiling this plan this time. We now have all the proof we need. And to my posse who i have worked with closely for a long time now....this is bitter sweeeeeeeeeeeet! All this information has been passed to the proper people who can make a difference!
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 14, 2013 at 3:13 PM
Guys i found this online. Take a look at it.. We are not alone
http://www.mlhorwitzlaw.com/blog/2013/04/florida-counties-running-online-sex-stings----is-it-entrapment.shtml
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Talkn StangJune 14, 2013 at 6:34 PM
i have read those type law firm advertisements and they raise a great point, but you also must remember that not everyone can afford an attorney and fees can be very expensive unfortunately. I have always said before, get a feel for who you are hiring or whomever is representing you. An attorney who is more libertarian as opposed to conservative will better suit you in these types of cases. These are things you wouldnt even normally think about, but believe me, it does make a difference and i have seen it for myself. Even in my case in which i had a PD, it just so happened that he was more of a radical libertarian and that so worked to my advantage. Having the most expensive attorney does not always guarantee you success, but having one who understands the truth sure does help out as well. They tend to go that extra mile. We are on the downhill stretch of this battle and i feel as if we are much closer to the finish line. It has been a long time coming!
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freedom070476June 15, 2013 at 9:54 AM
Regarding the two cases DueProcessisDue listed, the State is appealing both. But they have to or be forced to cease these unethical operations completely.
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aladdinJune 15, 2013 at 9:58 AM
There is no notice of appeal for Maniscalco, just Jothilingam.
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Cautiouswatcher12June 18, 2013 at 2:40 PM
they have to file an appeal just so they can try and keep the fake money coming in
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Talkn StangJune 16, 2013 at 8:45 AM
when they do the bait and switch, they are implanting in ones mind the propensity to commit such an act. Tese stings are not a "good faith" effort to catch true predators...they are poorly set traps whicn ensnare the unsuspected using sex as the bait. Courts have already ruled this illegal and finally Florida seems to be following suit. Operation Redemption is still in effect people. It is not going anywhere until somebody is held accountable for letting this happen in our country.
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Talkn StangJune 16, 2013 at 8:54 AM
if people/parents/guardians/custodians of minors are actually pimping these minors out, then those are the people who need to be arrested. Those placing these illegal ads should be incarcerated or whomever is responsible for letting this happen. As i have said before, this is criminal conspiracy. Subjecting normal law abiding citizens to our criminal justice system in order to get continued funding for a problem that doesnt exist as they claim (cooking the books) is a serious crime. And for you law enforcement who read this, i would be extrememely concerned if i were you. If you were involved and knew that this was happening, myself as well as others will stand before this great nation and testify to the wrongfulness of your actions. YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I have served my country well in wartime and in peace and ill be damned if we are going to take this SHIT anymore!
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Talkn StangJune 16, 2013 at 9:06 AM
for those who havn't received my presentation on "The Truth and Realities About Florida's Sex Sting Operations" just email me and i will send you a copy. What i want to know is how many people are reading this blog in support of the cause?
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Prince MachiavelliJune 17, 2013 at 12:40 PM
I would love to have it but forgot your email :)
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Talkn StangJune 16, 2013 at 10:44 AM
http://scriptogr.am/stoptheinsanity/post/icac-operational-and-investigative-standards-and-federal-law
it is not only this blog, but there are others as well. The more, the merrier, and yes, i know this person as well!
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aladdinJune 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM
If you want the documents for the recent entrapment dismissals they are available at the other blog. The first link in each post is a Zip file containing PDF's of the court documents.
State v Jothilingam
And:
State v Maniscalco
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Talkn StangJune 16, 2013 at 8:47 PM
and to all you mothers who have come forward in defense of your sons, I love it! There is nothing better than a bunch of pissed off mothers joining the fight for justice. MADD doesnt have anything on the anger and pissedoffedness i have heard from you wonderful ladies. That is what it is going to take....a complete and total team effort from all of us. A lil update, i am just waiting on CBS..it wont be much longer i dont think
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screwed in lee countyJune 17, 2013 at 7:24 AM
Awesome ruling by Manatee I pray that second court of appeals upholds the dismissal. The state is risking setting a precedent for future dismissals. Lets hope fhe 2nd court of appeals rules wisely.
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cigarcitygirlJune 17, 2013 at 7:50 AM
Well, they're at it again. Polk County sting "nets" 41 this weekend. (Happy Father's Day!) Judd to address media this morning. Hope someone there asks some tough questions! Maybe CBS would like to put forward some follow-up questions to the Sheriff.
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2013/6/17/online_child_predato.html
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Roger ClondikeJune 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/41-arrested-in-polk-county-child-sex-sting/-/1637132/20597264/-/vorwxdz/-/index.html
Sickening
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Raymond JusticeJune 17, 2013 at 12:24 PM
EVERYONE Needs to be commenting on this. You can blog on it at the end of the article.
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Talkn StangJune 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM
wow, Judd, you are one idiot who needs to keep his mouth shut. you will be a pioneer alright...you will be the first law enforcement officer to go to jail for your illegal tactics. What a great day it will be when that happens. You are the true SICKO. You will see your "monsters" alright and when you are in prison, you will encounter your "demons" as well. They will have no pity on your soul
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Talkn StangJune 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM
as i have stated all along, Judd has used his position within the FSA to sell his "template" of these sting operations to Florida Sheriff's through out the state. I would like to think that i was RIGHT ON THE MONEY with the statement i made some time ago........ JUDD, "I and a few other sheriffs convinced the Florida Sheriffs Association to make this a priority," he said. "Now, we do them all over the state. We've literally arrested hundreds of people."
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Talkn StangJune 17, 2013 at 12:50 PM
the reason why he has made these a priority is because of funding. Funding that is free....funding that has allowed him to create his "command and control" center. If you look at the population of Polk county and how it relates to others with crime/stings, etc....they do not correlate.
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 17, 2013 at 2:29 PM
The media needs to act now. The media needs to comfront him and the others and expose the true and ask the real questions. Only then.. People will realized and they will know they are done. I guess the whole state of florida is sick right. Public you need to wake up this is a complete lie. We need to get the Media attention in order to get the true. We need to send emails to judges, public people anyone that has the voice and the power to get this out !!
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devotedgfJune 17, 2013 at 3:42 PM
I have sent emails to both the President and his wife. Also, the congressman and mayors office. It is going to take all of us together as a team to show them we are not going to stand for what they are doing to the families that live here and the people they have hurt in all
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 5:59 AM
I was giving it some thoughts to this and i think the only way to really get this out faster is too create a short video with all the info we have and someone talking and guving its testimony and showing all the documents that ww have and all the ruling against this madness and do a nice video and upload it to Youtube and sent the video to news channels and post it on all social sites. That way we get the true out faster... Thoughts??
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Roger ClondikeJune 18, 2013 at 7:32 AM
I agree
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 10:26 AM
look what I found per Wikipedia.
Ethical and legal concerns
Sting operations are fraught with ethical concerns over whether they constitute entrapment. Law-enforcement may have to be careful not to provoke the commission of a crime by someone who would not otherwise have done so. Additionally, in the process of such operations, the police often engage in the same crimes, such as buying or selling contraband, soliciting prostitutes, etc. In common law jurisdictions, the defendant may invoke the defense of entrapment.
Contrary to popular misconceptions, however, entrapment does not prohibit undercover police officers from posing as criminals or denying that they are police.[3] Entrapment is typically only a defense if a suspect is pressured into committing a crime they would probably not have committed otherwise, though the legal definition of this pressure varies greatly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For example, if undercover officers coerced a potential suspect into manufacturing illegal drugs to sell them, then the accused could use entrapment as a defense. However, if a suspect is already manufacturing drugs and police pose as buyers to catch him, then entrapment usually has not occurred.
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 10:29 AM
look.. something like this is what we need!! but with a video with documentation and probes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Evn8FD0I0&noredirect=1
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM
check this out.. we have to fight people.. other has done it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1z7-2SNvzw
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 10:57 AM
another video regarding this illegal actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns_louWVNDE
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Larner LJune 18, 2013 at 12:12 PM
Some stings, especially those involving age, is a crime that is impossible to commit. Therefore there is no way to even attempt to commit a crime when the crime itself is impossible to commit.
You can't attempted murder on Elvis... No matter how much you want to murder Elvis, it doesn't change the fact that murdering Elvis is impossible.
If there were underage alcohol stings, using young looking undercovers posing as underage teenagers trying to buy alcohol and arresting the store employee who tries to sell them alcohol... This would be defended as an impossibility crime, despite the intention of selling alcohol to a minor, the employee sold alcohol to someone who's over 21... No matter his intentions, it doesn't change the fact that it is impossible for him to sell it to a minor, since the purchaser is over 21.
And here comes the internet sex stings.
If a person has sex with someone who claims to be under the age of consent but happens to be an adult... It would be legal, despite them thinking that they're having sex with someone underage, it doesn't change the fact that the person never did, it was an adult.
See it this way, if one of the men busted on To Catch a Predator actually went and had sex with the adult decoy believing that the decoy is underage... It would be totally legal... Yet not having sex is.
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM
That is totally true moreove if you are being setup and lure more than once to pleaseee commit the crime. Even though you say no, i dont want to do it, they keep comming at you hard. The problem here is that they are telling everyone that people arrested are on internet looking to have sex with an underage and to fo it even more guilty they dont say underage. They use the word child. Child is considered when is 12 years old or less, 13 and up is considered a teen. So that is another lie to the media. But of course how look worst to the public? Online teen sex sting or online child sex sting? This is another lie so basically you cant be charged with anything related to child because 1. It was an adult, 2. The adult was posing as a teen not a child and the adult was on a adult website not in a child or teen website. How can we use this ?
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aladdinJune 18, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Good thoughts but:
1. Florida does not recognize legal or factual impossibility. The closest it gets to that is "statutory construction". See PAMBLANCO v. State, Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2013 Again, this decision is NOT based on impossibility but a close relative, statutory construction. Unfortunately impossibility will get you nowhere in Florida courts.
2.The internet solicitation and traveling statutes which are under Chapter 847, include the phrases or another person believed by the person to be a child and or a person believed to be a parent, legal guardian, or custodian of a child which allow them to prosecute you regardless of the actual age of the person you were talking to.
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Talkn StangJune 18, 2013 at 7:11 PM
Larner L. i love your way of thinking, but as aladdin stated, it has been shown to be impossible to use the "impossibility" defense. And Havanawebsolutions...i am working on the media and have been. It has not been easy, but i am about as close as i have ever been. It's not like nobody is trying. TRUST ME
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Larner LJune 18, 2013 at 9:06 PM
Aladdin
Does it only apply to solicitation and traveling and not actual sex?
I've read this article a while ago about a lawyer who wrote a letter to a court asking if it's illegal if for one to have sex with someone whom they believe to be underage but is actually an adult. They answer is no, because there is no underage, they person had sex with an adult.
This is beginning to get me wondering about the modern American legal system... So talking to an adult decoy believing he/she is underage and traveling to meet them for sex is illegal. However, if you end up traveling to meet up with them and actually had sex still believing the decoy is underage... it would be legal?
Statutory Construction and "believed" is something dangerous I think, there is a bigger agenda than catching "predators", just like the national sex offender registry and the guys pushing it...
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aladdinJune 18, 2013 at 10:34 PM
Awesome question and I hope I can answer it!
You're getting into an area where the defense attorney would have to take a long look at exactly how the prosecution is charging a defendant. As a general rule of thumb anybody arrested in one of these stings will be facing 3 or 4 primary charges, two charges under 847, one charge under chapter 800 and possibly one charge of 934.215 which is unlawful use of a 2 way communication device.
As an example let's say you were talking to someone claiming to be 14 and you traveled to meet them. You will get one charge of 847.0135(3)(a) which is seducing, soliciting, luring or enticing a minor child. Sometimes this will be listed as "unlawful communication". Because you traveled you'll get a charge of 847.0135(4)(a) which is traveling to meet a minor after seducing, soliciting, luring or enticing a minor. These are the statutes that contain the language or another person believed by the person to be a child. With these statutes actual age is absolutely irrelevant it's all about what you "believed". The courts interpret "believed" as a scienter or knowledge requirement so all that's required is that you were informed the person you were talking to claimed to be a minor.
Now where this starts to get complicated is the 847 statues don't specify any actual illegal sexual acts. Instead they refer you to any act enumerated in chapter 794, chapter 800 or chapter 827. Almost always the State will go for a chapter 800 offense which is all the lewd/lascivious acts. Because these acts obviously never occur in a sting arrest they have to be charged as either a criminal solicitation or a criminal attempt.
The current precedent because of the Pamblanco decision is that a completed lewd/lascivious act or a solicitation of a lewd/lascivious act requires an actual minor. On the other hand an attempted lewd/lascivious act may not require an actual minor because attempt liability was specifically not addressed by the court.
The moral of the story for a defense attorney is go over the charging instrument filed by the prosecutor with a fine tooth comb. If the prosecution charged the lewd/lascivious act(s) as criminal solicitation(s) they currently cannot stand. If they were charged as criminal attempt(s) then they might still hold up even with a fictitious child.
So a very long answer to your question but for the moment actual sex or solicitation of sex requires an actual minor but attempting to have sex with a minor doesn't.
This all gets even more complicated because there are chapter 847 statutes that deal with talking to the parent, guardian or custodian of a minor child making speech between adults illegal. An older but very complete breakdown of the 847 statutes I talked about in the example is available on the other blog.
CYBERPREDATORS: POLICE INTERNET INVESTIGATIONS UNDER FLORIDA STATUTE 847.0135
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Larner LJune 19, 2013 at 12:55 AM
I always wondering if a person can get arrested for selling cocaine when he's just selling salt he believes to be cocaine?
There was this example about a guy who tried to drug this other guy with vitamin tablets... believing that it's rat poison... I wonder if Florida police will charge him with attempted murder...
This whole internet sex sting and the laws accompanying it seems like it's developed and written by the prosecutors instead of law makers, it just makes their work a lot easier and can rack up "captures" easily by screwing the sense of laws.
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aladdinJune 19, 2013 at 11:55 AM
The unfortunate answer to this one is yes even if the substance being sold is salt as long as the guy thinks he is selling cocaine to an undercover officer he can be arrested.
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Sandra RollinsJune 18, 2013 at 5:12 PM
Have you thought about using their ads against them. TPD is currently running an ad on Craiglist entitled Summer Fun
"I want to have some fun but everyone on here appears to ne fake. If you are cool and want to have fun send me a message with something RANDOM in the title so that I know you are a real person.". There is a follow on email that tell people to stay away from this post because it is a 12 yr old that needs her computer taken and some parental supervision.
When you read this message we knowv 12 yr olds don't talk like this and would never use random. This definitely an adult trying hard to be young. Plus shy would they post in Craiglist when they read the statement they are atleast 18. It will be the little attention to details along with the right documentation that will eventually put an end to them using adult websites
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 19, 2013 at 6:22 AM
Larner you are right on that. The problem here is that the law was made for this spicifics online sex stings nothing else. I bet some law enforcements push for it and made them with the spelling they need it for the stings. Now i think our better defense is entrapment and show they were doing all possible and begging us to commit thr crime they said we commited. In my case i said NO 2 times. And they keep enticing and trying hard. We all know that they are not looking for the real predators is just a money and power machine that is ruining life in Florida.
We all know they need thr money and the grant from the goverment so they dont get fired and they hire more police force.
Do we knownof any other case it was dismiss ?
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Larner LJune 19, 2013 at 9:33 AM
With the sex offender registry to remind the public how many "sex offenders" are out there seems to justify laws like these to pass instead of being dismiss as stupid, they were praised as a necessary step.
The funny thing about this sex offender registry is its broad reach and applies to cases committed before the creation of the registry.
Duane Chapman, aka, Dog the Bounty Hunter was convicted as a young man for murder. He was riding with a gang at a young age and end up being in a drug deal robbery gone wrong. A guy was shot and Dog was convicted of murder.
Dog always states that he regrets what he has done.
From by perspectiveI think he should be grateful, had Dog not ride with a gang and plan on robbing a guy during a drug deal causing the guy's death... instead he got drunk one night and streaked at a football game, or he had sex with a girl who's a freshmen when he's a junior... He would've most likely be a "sex offender" now.
So I think he should be pretty grateful his conviction is murder, instead of something like "streaking" or "sex with a freshmen as a junior".
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aladdinJune 19, 2013 at 8:20 PM
Amen Brother Larner! (Or Sister Larner)
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Larner LJune 20, 2013 at 6:23 AM
It's just funny how this country twists the rule of laws in order to make their jobs easier.
I heard this story about a guy in a foreign jurisdiction that was selling fake cocaine to people, he got busted and was charged with fraud.
In the US they will probably charge him with drug dealing, doesn't matter if he's selling real drugs or not.
See, this is the major problem with the US, especially Florida. WIth the growing private prison industry, it is easy to link the industry with the growth of "crime". With private prisons, there is a demand for crime. And there is nothing better than making money by enforcing "justice" and being hard on "crime".
I'm not supporting crime or any of these questionable behaviors by the men arrested in the stings... But by the fact that they're conducting stings in order to somehow catch predators? Or is there a bigger motive behind the "stings", the once popular show To Catch a Predator is known to pay the vigilante group money to conduct stings.
And of course how far reach the US legal system wants to deal with "sex crimes"... A teenage girl in New Jersey was charged with child porn because she has taken pictures of herself and put them on myspace. Since taking pictures and owning pictures of child nudity is considered child abuse... Did they just charge the girl for abusing herself? The case was probably dismissed but what disturbs me is that the legal system has so much time in hand that they have the sanity to charge a teenage girl for abusing herself.
And of course there is the child porn cases, one of the growing criminal arrests in the US. This 18 year old kid was sentenced to 10 years in prison for downloading kiddie porn, while the cop that shot a handcuffed man in California got 2 years and served one. It's not that downloading kiddie porn is a good thing is just not really that big of a deal as they make it, instead of throwing this kid in prison I think it's more reasonable to give him a year old community service plus professional counseling.
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devotedgfJune 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM
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devotedgfJune 19, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Steve Southerland, the 2nd. sent this to our home so give it out to everyone you know and have them call him with this you never know it might help.
Panama City Office
840 W. 11th Street, suite 2250
Panama City Fl. 32401
Phone (850)785-0812
Fax (850)763-3764
Tallahassee office
3116 Capital Circle NE, Suite 9
Tallahassee, Fl. 32308
Phone: (850)561-3979
Fax: (850)681-2902
Washington, D.C. Office
1229 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: (202)225-5235
Fax:(202)225-5615
The more that call may open the door to them checking more into what we are saying It doesn't hurt to try. Then maybe they will be more apt to help correct the injustice that has been being done to all that has been so affected by this horrific ordeal.
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Talkn StangJune 19, 2013 at 8:26 PM
ALL we need is media coverage so i am going to pray that my phone rings soon. I am not much of a gambling man, but i have a feeling something will soon happen.
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Talkn StangJune 19, 2013 at 8:31 PM
http://www.floridasexoffensesdefenseblog.com/
http://www.ftmyerscriminaldefenseattorneys.com/2013/06/internet-sex-stings-coming-to-ft-myers.shtml
i cant believe you didnt post these already Aladdin, lmao you're slackin! j/k
BTW, Aladdin and i work closely together in getting this information and getting it out to those who can make a difference. There is alot going on behind the scenes. It isnt just this blog by any means, but the blog has really come alive as of late and it has become a wonderful tool for people to discuss these illegal operations. We will keep it titled FloridaScandal, but as i was telling Dueprocess earlier, it is soon to be a national scandal. Keep up the good work people
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aladdinJune 19, 2013 at 10:16 PM
I wasn't slacking! I was pondering whether to post them or sue the guy for plagiarism.
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Talkn StangJune 20, 2013 at 9:30 AM
nah, after the emails he sent me, i am very pleased to have another attorney joining the fight and the cases he has are very upsetting to say the least. If we can get the one case to go public, it would help. I will see what i can do
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Justice MyersJune 19, 2013 at 10:00 PM
What I think would be a good idea is, to find someone who's very confident in their case who knows they have a good chance of winning. At the end if the judge may let you say something else just have your attorney say everything about these illegal stings and how he/you hope and pray everyone starts to realize what's going on ain't right. Even if it doesn't gain media attention everyone in the courtroom HEARD you.
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Talkn StangJune 20, 2013 at 9:28 AM
the wheels of justice are slow but progress is being made. The things that need to be done are being worked on.
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Roger ClondikeJune 20, 2013 at 11:45 AM
http://www.floridasexoffensesdefenseblog.com/
I just contacted this lawyer.. and he said he was won and gotten a lot of these cases thrown out.
Unfortuantely Im already sentenced and he said that Im shit out of luck. Even if we expose these stings.. there is nothing that you all can do for me.
Guess Im done following this blog.
Later guys. and good luck.
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Scott SelfeJune 20, 2013 at 11:48 AM
Dude, are you serious? Tell that attorney to take a fucking leap.
If these things get exposed for the wrong that they are you do have at least 1 option - a Habeas Corpus.
Either the attorney is a douche bag, or you're a cop!
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aladdinJune 20, 2013 at 1:16 PM
Did he actually say there was nothing YOU could do or did he say there was nothing HE could do? I'm asking because he is a criminal defense attorney not an appellate attorney so he doesn't handle anything post conviction.
You posted before that you were sentenced to 4.5 months in jail, are you on community control or probation still? If so then you have options like rule 3.850 post conviction relief or as Scott Selfe pointed out a writ of Habeas Corpus in both the State and federal levels.
If your sentence was complete with the 4.5 months jail then your options are more limited but there are still some out there in the form of extraordinary writs. You'll have to talk to an attorney that deals with writ practice to explore those options because their use in Florida may have been replaced with statutory options. For some info on extraordinary writs see Coram What? An Introduction to Federal Special Writs
It ain't over till the fat lady sings and she isn't even the theater yet. Your sentence was just the closing of the first act.
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Talkn StangJune 20, 2013 at 8:19 PM
A very productive day for sure without getting into detail. Mr. Selfe, it was a pleasure talking with you on the phone. WOW. I have been busy for sure.
And wow, this is unbelievable.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jun/09/judge-orders-fbi-task-force-cases-to-be/
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freedom070476June 22, 2013 at 5:07 AM
This recent story, although in CA, possibly shows an increase in critical scrutiny of law enforement tactics.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericgoldman/2013/06/17/why-craigslist-casual-encounters-is-a-bad-spot-to-catch-predators/
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Talkn StangJune 24, 2013 at 9:05 PM
awesome job, You are commended, but i cannot explain as to why at this time, lol This was a very good POST
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aladdinJune 22, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Good find!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 23, 2013 at 6:52 AM
Everyone should read Chapter 18 United States Code Section 2518. The link is posted above.
Someone mentioned the fact that there was a court case that stated that the inherent nature of the internet gives law enforcement the ability to record electronic communication without encroaching on the accused rights to not have their communications illegally intercepted. HOWEVER, this federal code that mandates the FCC regulations states otherwise!
THEREFORE, the lesson to be learned here is: JUST BECAUSE A COURT CASE SAYS SOMETHING AND IS CONSIDERED "PRECEDENT" DOES NOT MAKE IT SO! The legal arguments in the case can still be reargued and QUASHED! This happened with the Cruz case as you all should remember.
CONSEQUENTLY, the ONLY case that says these tactics are legal is Marreel so it NEEDS TO BE QUASHED. This is the case that gives the courts the impression that just because someone continues to talk to an alleged minor who is looking for sex on an adult site, then that shows their predisposition. THIS CASE CONFLICTS WITH NUMEROUS FLORIDA CASES AND THE OPINION IS WRONG JUST LIKE THE CASE THAT STATES IT'S OK FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO NOT HAVE A WARRANT DURING AN UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION!!!
The CORRECT legal arguments that prove these stings illegal are the federal ICAC guidelines, 18 USC Section 2518, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, LAW ENFORCEMENT CANNOT BE ENGAGED IN FISHING EXPEDITIONS ESPECIALLY THAT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE LEGAL ACTIVITY OF LOOKING FOR SEX ONLINE!!!
Law enforcement must have a warrant FOR EVERYTHING and a warrant should not, cannot, and will not EVER be granted for a fishing expedition.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJune 23, 2013 at 7:02 AM
There wasn't a warrant granted to arrest those 41 men on those ADULT DATING SITES!!! OBJECTIVE ENTRAPMENT PEOPLE regardless of the specifics of the case!!!
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Talkn StangJune 23, 2013 at 5:54 PM
Judge DueProcess.......did i get that correct? lmao
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 25, 2013 at 1:40 PM
Hi guys. Do we have any good news?? Any updates
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Talkn StangJune 25, 2013 at 4:25 PM
very good news....just hand tight. I promise you we are making progress
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Talkn StangJune 25, 2013 at 4:31 PM
i believe we are about to get alot more interest and support about this fight and i will leave it at that but you can thank Mr. Selfe and Freedom070476 for that. They just don't realize it, lol
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Justice MyersJune 26, 2013 at 11:50 PM
So a while ago I asked if some very important laws could be used ans I was told no because they were federal. Well it appears as if federal laws can be used (if not I would try it anyway)nso I have a couple that I think may help.
Model Penal Code sec. 2.13(1)(a): under the code an officer also entraps if he "makes knowingly false representations designed to induce the belief that such conduct is not prohibited."
This is exactly what they're doing with the false age, and also proves inducement.
Model Penal Code sec. 2.13(2): a person prosecuted for an offense shall be aquitted if he proves by a preponderance of evidence that his conduct occurred in response to an entrapment. "THE ISSUE OF ENTRAPMENT SHALL BE TRIED BY THE COURT IN ABSENCE OF THE JURY."
This is something else to add to help get a motion to dismiss instead of trial.
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aladdinJune 27, 2013 at 12:07 AM
Uhhhhhh I don't want to sound like a jerk but the model penal code is a framework for writing legislation so anything straight from it is not law.
Model Penal Code
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Justice MyersJune 27, 2013 at 7:42 AM
So it means nothing?
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aladdinJune 27, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Unless you're writing a new law no not realy
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Talkn StangJune 27, 2013 at 10:25 AM
you have to have a hearing by judge.....until recently, most judges havnt found that the defendant has shown by a preponderance of the evidence, (which isn't the largest burden of proof their is), that law enforcement induced anyone to commit such acts. This has been totally BS and my case is a fine example of that. The question i love to ask is, "are these good faith efforts to catch true perpetrators?" and i think we all know the answer to that question!
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Talkn StangJune 27, 2013 at 10:28 AM
the time will come where law enforcement is going to have to sit on the stand and answer that question. When that day comes, it will be a great one for us!
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screwed in lee countyJune 28, 2013 at 8:12 AM
I brought up the 2518 to my lawyer about the warrant. He said there is no expectation of privacy if the other person is a cop. he said it was settled law under thd Katz decision. undercover cops dont need a warrant. Any lawyers want to disagree?
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aladdinJune 28, 2013 at 12:08 PM
I seriously doubt you will find one that would disagree. If there is some type of warrant required it isn't because of 18 USC § 2518
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cigarcitygirlJune 28, 2013 at 7:23 PM
On a somewhat related topic: FRONT PAGE of USA Today (June 28-30)... ATF has their own brand of entrapment. Well written article by Brad Heath. Thousands caught in that web. Judges not happy. Glad to see some attention on the creation of crimes. Check it out.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/27/atf-stash-houses-sting-usa-today-investigation/2457109/
Our turn is coming soon. I feel it.
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freedom070476June 30, 2013 at 5:39 AM
For Talkn Stang and others: Does anyone have any idea yet of a timeline when we might get more interest and support for this fight?
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LMJune 30, 2013 at 6:47 AM
Here again is the problem with our Law Enforcement and Justice System
http://www.christianpost.com/news/teen-faces-8-years-in-prison-for-making-sarcastic-comment-on-facebook-98994/#s6rsyrqijudhseaz.99
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HavanawebsolutionsJune 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM
I cant believe this.. Since when in this country law enforcment has so much power over law and constitution? This is incredible. Who is responsable for all this?? Why law makers are allowing this? This was once a free country.. Not anymore.
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Talkn StangJune 30, 2013 at 9:44 AM
are they coming after me? i havnt done anything wrong, so bring it on, lol! I sure am getting some odd emails. Nothing would surprise me
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Johandy MorejonJuly 2, 2013 at 12:10 PM
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 2, 2013 at 12:14 PM
Florida polk county and other police force are sick. Take a look at this report. What do you think??
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1383107#bmb=1
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 2, 2013 at 12:20 PM
Omg.. Guys you need to check this out. This shoe once for all that sarasota police is corrupted. Look at the link bellow is a video of a news channel. If we could contact that same new channel to expose all this..
http://www.wtsp.com/video/1959645058001/1/Sarasota-police-informant-sex-scandal
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 2, 2013 at 12:27 PM
This is another article. The sarasota police officers are te most dirty and corrupt. They are doing sex stings online and at the same time having sex with prostitutes and offering drugs and protection.. Can you believe this??
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-32828338_ITM
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 2, 2013 at 12:30 PM
Sarasota police is one of the most dirty and corrupted. Once hand they are doing illegal online sex stings and on the other hand they are having sex with prostitutes and offering drogs and protection in exchange. Look..
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-32828338_ITM
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM
This is a great article bellow.. Question is how can we use this??
Charges Dismissed Against Former Child Sex Crimes Prosecutor For Lack Of Actual Minor In FBI Sting
Published 1, December 7, 2012 Constitutional Law , Criminal law , Society 19 Comments
There is an interesting ruling out of Mobile, Alabama where former child sex crimes prosecutor, Steve Giardini, was charged with solicitation of a minor over the computer. Special Judge Gaines McCorquodale dismissed the charge on a key missing element under the statute: an actual victim. Since Giardini was speaking with an undercover officer posing as a 15-year-old girl, McCorquodale ruled that there was no victim as required under the language of the statute for child enticement. Essentially, no child, no enticement, no charge.
According to the FBI agent, the agent assumed the identity of a teenage girl named Daphne. The agent said in the affidavit Giardini said that he wanted to meet the girl and that the two discussed the importance of not getting caught by her mother. This included conversations over the phone with the agent using a voice changing technology. The agent said that Giardini asked the girl if she had ever had sex and invited her to use the swimming pool and hot tub at his home and that they could go to the beach at Perdido Key in Florida. The agent also said that Giardini asked her to take off her clothes and masturbate so that he could hear as well as asking her to take a topless photo once her mother was gone.
Giardini had already been tried on the charges, which resulted in a hung jury. The split was not particularly close — 7-5.
McCorquodale noted that “[t]he issue becomes whether or not that statute can be applicable to an undercover agent purporting to be a fifteen (15) year old female child.” A state appellate court had previously dismissed a case based on the same problem and the judge followed the same reasoning. He also dismissed a related charge of solicitation of obscene matter of a child on the same grounds. He found that “the state is faced with the issue that there is no actual victim in the case. As a result, there was no actual production of any photograph or attempted production of any photograph of breast nudity of a child under the age of sixteen (16). That evidence is undisputed here.”
Giardini was a 20-year veteran who was prosecuting child sex offenses when he was nabbed in the sting operation. He was accused of having an almost four-month-long correspondence with the “child”. He resigned after the FBI searched his home.
The question is whether Giardini will now be charged by federal prosecutors. Like other areas, Congress has created dual state-federal crimes for online solicitation. Many civil libertarians have objected in the past that acquittals in state court are followed by basically the same charge in federal courts. Yet, federal courts have refused to enforce double jeopardy protections in such cases.
This would be a bit different since, while tried earlier to a hung jury, Giardini secured dismissal on a legal question.
Giardini’s lawyer argues that the ex-prosecutor had long conversations with many other counterparts, mostly adults. He insists that a request for a topless photo was unclear — an argument supported by the earlier hung jury. Yet, it is not clear, if the agent is telling the truth, how many adults were asked to avoid their mothers and discuss whether they were virgins.
The question is now whether such allegations should strip Giardini of his bar license even without federal charges. If the agent’s affidavit is to be believed, Giardini encouraged a 15-year-old girl to avoid her mother, take topless photos, and visit him without parental consent. If the bar believes the allegations, I would find it hard to be convinced that he could serve as an attorney and officer of the court.
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Talkn StangJuly 2, 2013 at 7:38 PM
if i remember correctly, the language between the Florida and Alabama statues is construed differently, or something happened with the Alabama statute....it was changed after he was initially charged...something like that.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 3, 2013 at 1:03 PM
My lawyer will file a motion for dismisal on my case because entrapment. When i learned the age of the fake under age i said i dont wanted to talk to the person. Hours after that they came back at me trying again. What do u think i can put on my motion or my lawyer should know that will help me?
Thanks
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freedom070476July 3, 2013 at 3:44 PM
I suggest your lawyer use similar format and wording as was the motion filed in Manatee County Case # 2012CF003160, which was confirmed by the Judge, although the Appellate Court ruled must go to trial in order for the issue of entrapment to be decided by Jury. Everyone should request their attorneys file a motion for dismissal based on entrapment.
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aladdinJuly 3, 2013 at 7:02 PM
Where are you getting the 2nd DCA already heard the state's appeal? Nothing will happen until at least 08/02/2013 as the court reporter has until then to file the complete transcript.
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freedom070476July 3, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Has anyone filed a subpoena to obtain the Internet Crimes Against Children (ICAC) Federal Training Manual For The Undercover Online Chat Training Course, or know someone who has a copy?
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Talkn StangJuly 3, 2013 at 6:12 PM
no, but according to the Freedom of Information Act rule 7e i think, it doesnt really matter anyway. On a side note things are stirring and that is all i can say. Have a great 4th of July everyone.
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freedom070476July 3, 2013 at 6:55 PM
Thank you for the info and idea regarding FOIA. I believe there may be language in the Act that allows the release of the document, with sensitive portions redacted. I'll research some more and plan to file a FOIA Request.
Regarding the source for the rules at the top of this blog, how reliable was the contact that provided the information, i.e., what is everyone's confidence level regarding the accuracy of the information about the stipulations in the ICAC Training Manual for online chat?
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 3, 2013 at 6:04 PM
I would love to get a hold at that too. The operational manual..
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aladdinJuly 3, 2013 at 7:46 PM
1. I know the info posted at the beginning of the blog sounds great and if we can ever get a copy of the ICAC training materials to confirm it, it will be great. Unfortunately it's completely unconfirmed at this point no matter how reliable the source is.
2. Even if it were confirmed there are several hurdles to using that information. As training materials compiled for law enforcement purposes they are exempt from disclosure and use in court under the Freedom of Information Act Exemption 7E. The State will try to claim they are not the custodian of the training materials and you must request them from the DOJ.
3. I know you're facing State charges but law enforcement materials that reveal "surveillance techniques or procedures or personnel" are exempt under Florida law as well. See Flroida Statute 119.071 for more info. Florida Statute 119 is the public records law.
4. Now, having said that there is a potential way to get the information you need and get it into court. First your attorney will have to subpoena (or file a motion to compel discovery) all ICAC training material pertaining to undercover chat investigations from the task force host for the region you were arrested in.
5. The State will fight based on FOIA Exemption 7E and as mentioned will try to claim they are not allowed to hand out those materials. Your attorney will need to point out FOIA Exemption 7E only applies to materials not previously disclosed by a federal agency to a non-federal agency. The DOJ has already voluntarily disclosed the materials to thousands of non-federal agencies including the three task force hosts in Florida therefore access to the material is governed by Florida law.
6. The State will raise the exemption for surveillance techniques or procedures but since what you are seeking is of an exculpatory nature your attorney should request an in camera review. During the review the judge will evaluate the information to see what part, if any, is exculpatory. At that time what should happen is either a heavily redacted version is entered into evidence or just the sections pertaining to your defense are entered with a complete copy sealed for the record.
7. If all of this happens you need to be aware that training materials do not carry the weight of law. They will go to the weight of the State's evidence or testimony and not the admissibility. Getting the info admitted will allow you to impeach the testimony of the investigator but will not result in the dismissal of charges or suppression of evidence. Training materials are not a magic bullet and there is absolutely nothing that requires an investigator to follow the training.
8. The exclusionary rule (suppression of evidence) only applies when compelled by a Constitutional violation or a violation of a statute where the defendant was unduly prejudiced by the violation of the statute. While there are a couple of statutes dealing with training in the ICAC legislation none of them state an investigator must follow the training so no judge will apply the exclusionary rule for not following the training.
9. Unlike the statutes pertaining to training the statutes pertaining to national prosecution and investigative standards are much more specific and violations of them should rise to the level of applying the exclusionary rule. If you haven't seen it try ICAC Operational and Investigative Standards and Federal Law for for information on the ICAC Standards. Be sure to always call them Standards, procedures are non-statutory. Standards are compelled by statute and regulatory in nature.
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Justice MyersJuly 4, 2013 at 6:05 PM
I don't understand why this is such a huge problem as it is. The things they've done CLEARLY violate due process, the standards themselves say law enforcement tactics BETTER adhere to due process, and I'm personally gonna hire Mr. Snipes since he's been apart of the ICAC and tell them like he told me that what they've done is entrapment and violates due process of law.
BUT...what I am a little worried about is that ICAC Task Force wasn't listed as participating in my sting, but I'm sure they had something to do with it since they created these types of stings. So my question is what can/should I say to prove ICAC was apart of the sting I was in, because I'm sure they'll try to lie (again) and say the ICAC had nothing to do with the sting.
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Justice MyersJuly 4, 2013 at 6:11 PM
Sorry, I think a better way to put it would be. Anytime law enforcement wants to do an INTERNET sting, do they absolutely HAVE TO be affiliated with ICAC in some way? Would anybody who knows for a fact chime in.
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aladdinJuly 4, 2013 at 6:26 PM
The task force host doesn't have to be a direct participant as long as the arresting agency is a task force member.
Have you told TalknStang what sting you were involved in by any chance? I'm only asking to track down if the arresting agency is a task force member.
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aladdinJuly 4, 2013 at 6:30 PM
To answer the second question no they do not have to be affiliated with the ICAC program but I haven't heard of any non ICAC stings in Florida in years.
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aladdinJuly 4, 2013 at 6:34 PM
If you read this within the next 10 minutes send an email to f766966@rmqkr.net with what sting you were arrested in and/or the arresting agency. That address is disposable and will only work for 10 minutes. After that everything is securely erased.
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Justice MyersJuly 5, 2013 at 9:50 AM
This is for anyone that can help. I was involved in Operation Spiderweb in Lee County in October 2012. ICAC isn't listed but I'm sure they're affiliated in some way. Everyone involved in the sting included Lee County Sheriff's Office, FBI, State Attorney's Office (which I believe is who the ICAC Standards state is who they're also usually affiliated with), Cape Coral police, and FDLE.
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Justice MyersJuly 4, 2013 at 6:08 PM
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 5, 2013 at 11:50 AM
Anyone knows if there has been more granted dismisals in florida??
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aladdinJuly 5, 2013 at 1:01 PM
Lee County is a member of The South Florida Internet Crime Against Children Task Force. The FBI involvement in Operation Spiderweb was an Innocent Images Task Force The Innocent Images Task Forces are a part of Project Safe Childhood as are the ICAC Task Forces as mandated by Congress under 42 USC § 17613 - Purpose of ICAC task forces as a part of the PROTECT Our Children Act of 2008
Right now it seems the public records archive for Cape Coral is down but they signed an MOU joining the South Florida ICAC Task Force in January of 2012. Google has cached copies of some of the information. Snapshot PDF's of that are available here and here.. If you need them the Cape Coral clerk has to give you complete copies of those records upon request.
The Broward County Sheriff's Office is the task force host for the South Florida ICAC Task Force. The FDLE, the State Attorney's Offices and the Attorney General's Office have all signed MOU's and are a part of the ICAC Program. There's absolutely no way Operation Spiderweb was not an ICAC operation.
The lead Assistant State Attorney for sex crimes in that region is Mr. Dennis Nicewander. He runs a very informative website at http://www.locatethelaw.org/ loaded with information on for prosecuting sex crimes.
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Justice MyersJuly 6, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Thanks alot for that info. it's exactly what I needed. How were you able to get the MOU's for Cape Coral PD? Does that mean everyone's MOU is public information? If so, I wonder what else can be found....
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aladdinJuly 6, 2013 at 12:44 PM
Well I don't have a copy of the MOU for the Cape Coral PD, I can just tell you that it exists. It looks like Cape Coral is in the process of redoing their online services and they haven't gotten to the public records archive yet. It was available three weeks ago but the links aren't working right now. If you do a Google search for "Cape Coral Police ICAC" you end up with this result:
Cape Coral Police ICAC
So we know they are a part of the ICAC program, we just can't get copies of the documents electronically right now.
Every ICAC MOU is a matter of public record in Florida. The trick is to do a Sunshine Act records request with whoever is the actual custodian of the records you want. In this case you have your choice of two custodians, the Broward County Sheriff's Office as the task force host and the City of Cape Coral because that MOU was signed between them. The BCSO should have the MOU's for every agency or office that's a member of the South Florida ICAC task force plus the MOU they signed with the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and any grant contracts.
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Talkn StangJuly 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM
It seems the 1stDCA is afraid to even offer a written decision on any of these sting cases but they are more than willing to on recent drug related sting cases. This is total BS. It so seems they are already biased and prejudiced against any defendant. This is another complete failure of the justice system at all levels and something needs to give way.... AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GRADY JUDD. Yea, we know Judd "pioneered" these illegal stings, but I dont give a rats ass about Grady Judd at this time. He will get what is coming to him
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJuly 6, 2013 at 2:16 PM
HERE ARE THE TWO CASES THAT WERE DISMISSED ON ENTRAPMENT AS A MATTER OF LAW IN MANATEE COUNTY!
STATE VS. ANDREW MANISCALCO, CASE NO. 2012-CF-003160
STATE VS. SIVASANKAR JOTHILINGAM, CASE NO. 2012-CF-003179
these cases prove egregious govt conduct during the internet stings. THE COURTS HAVE FINALLY STARTED TO RULE THE WAY THE LAW MANDATES!
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devotedgfJuly 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Hmmm. I was visiting my husband today and guess who pops in trying to make himself look good. He didn't stay but maybe 10 minutes trying to make a public appearance at the prison. Gov. Rick Scott your not fooling anyone you wouldn't even take the time to call me back. Your not for the people that need you. Your only for the people that give you money for contributions to try to keep yourself in office. The sad thing is your allowing good men to go to prison for these stings and you could care less what happens to them or their families I have nothing for you so go shake someones hand that gives a damn.
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Talkn StangJuly 7, 2013 at 10:34 PM
for those of you in Tallahassee that are possibly interested in making a difference and letting the courts know we mean business. Well i have an idea to do just that on the 17th. I will let you know more in a few days, but i think the idea i just came up with is an AWESOME one
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Talkn StangJuly 7, 2013 at 11:20 PM
http://opinions.1dca.org/written/opinions2013/06-24-2013/12-2186.pdf
this is a very important case as well
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screwed in lee countyJuly 8, 2013 at 4:48 AM
For those of ypu.following Operation Spiderweb in lee county. Over half of thse arrested took deals which gave them 24 months jil an then sex offender registry.Most had phblic defenders.
Zachary Crane case dropped
Jordan Peters youthful offender probation
Jacon Duval case dropped
Marc Mongelut-24months community control
Javon Safford-case dropped
Vincent Williams-72months community control
There are severl trials scheduled this month. I will keep you informed. If you fight the charges you can either get them dropped or get probation. Not one person has gone to trial yet. I have asked for more discovery in my case. Trial may not be til this Fall i it gets that fall. Justice mayer please email me and we can see if we can help each other oit.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 8, 2013 at 7:05 AM
Hi how can a case get dropped? I have a private lawyer.. Any info to help my case is appreciated..
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screwed in lee countyJuly 15, 2013 at 7:42 PM
I am using the objective and subjective entrapment defense. i was in an adults only web site. the police had no reason to be on that site. i got the decoy to admit that they came across 0 minors during the sting in this phone app. no minors so why were they on that app? Police cant give a valid reason.
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freedom070476July 16, 2013 at 4:33 PM
For screwed in lee county, can you tell me which website was your sting, Craigslist Casual Encounters, Plenty of Fish, or some other?
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 8, 2013 at 7:18 AM
It is possible to get the dismisal letter from the attorney and the judge on those cases??
Thanks
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screwed in lee countyJuly 8, 2013 at 8:09 AM
I am trying to find out why those cases were nolle prosecuti. There was nothing in the court records as to why. I have asked my attorney to see if he can find out. My guess is lack of evidence or questionable proof.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 8, 2013 at 8:45 AM
Most of this stings they file a motion to dismisa base on entrapment. It will be great to know the reason it was dropped..
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Talkn StangJuly 8, 2013 at 9:11 AM
that is very good information to know. thank you
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Talkn StangJuly 8, 2013 at 7:28 PM
if anybody in Tally is interested in attending what will be a "beat down" of these stings in an appellate courtroom soon, please email me at talknstang@yahoo.com for details. I might post the info here at a later time, but i would recommend anybody who has a case still pending for them to attend and even their attorneys. What will transpire in this courtroom can and will help many still fighting their cases....I PROMISE YOU THAT. This will be a sight to see and i don't think you want to miss it!
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scaredmommaJuly 9, 2013 at 8:43 AM
where will this be?if it is in tally,i'd make sure i attend.please let me know
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Talkn StangJuly 8, 2013 at 7:51 PM
awww....this sting operation was twarted, thank god no more were arrested. Law enforcement has created an unsafe environment for any kind of social media. Nothing is safe anymore
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20130702/ARTICLES/130709910?p=2&tc=pg
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Talkn StangJuly 8, 2013 at 8:02 PM
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Talkn StangJuly 9, 2013 at 12:27 PM
we live in a sad society when law enforcement can get away with this BS. America is not the land of the free by any stretch of the imagination
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 10, 2013 at 7:35 AM
Did we got at all a chance with the media? At least for them to say what is really going on?
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Talkn StangJuly 10, 2013 at 2:39 PM
everyone will know when it happens.
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Justice MyersJuly 10, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Just to let everyone know, the state is appealing BOTH of those Manatee cases.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 10, 2013 at 12:55 PM
Looks like the have the time and money to appeal all dismiss. What that means? It means that the cases are not dismised?
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screwed in lee countyJuly 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM
They can appeal it but Judge Lakin was a criminal defense lawyer for 20 years. He was rated one of the best lawyers in florida for three straight years. the state has to show he misapplied the law but in these cases he made the decision "as trier of facts". Appeal courts give leeway to the original judge. My lawyer thinks the court will uphold the original decision.
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Talkn StangJuly 10, 2013 at 2:36 PM
thats ok that they appealed those 2 cases. Those decisions were made soundly. Judge Lakin is a former federal judge who was actually appointed to that position by a current US Supreme Court Justice. Of course he is now a Florida judge
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freedom070476July 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM
U.S. Supreme Court Case, Jacobson v. United States (90-1124), 503 U.S. 540 (1992). Decision: In their zeal to enforce the law, Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 10, 2013 at 3:57 PM
Freedom how this help us legally??
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freedom070476July 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM
An attorney would have to make the case for entrapment, and cite the Supreme Court case as a precedent. Many of these cases began with Law Enforcement advertising on an adults-only website, then inducing the individual to commit the crime, all for the sole purpose of an arrest and conviction.
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Talkn StangJuly 11, 2013 at 9:40 AM
and you are right.....it is the sole purpose for making an arrest and getting a conviction. It is called, "COOKING THE BOOKS". Here is an example of how law enforcement does such that
http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=4245
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Talkn StangJuly 11, 2013 at 6:47 PM
that story was also included in my presentation i did last year. I also wrote that article in the presentation as well. For those who didn't get my presentation on, "The Truths and Realities About Florida Sex Sting Operations", you can email me at talknstang@yahoo.com for a copy. if i havnt heard from you before, please let me know who you are. Thanks
Also, just got this in! Get this to your attorneys
http://www.fd.org/docs/select-topics---common-offenses/enticers-and-travelers-law-and-strategy-in-child-sex-cases.pdf?sfvrsn=4
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Talkn StangJuly 10, 2013 at 6:42 PM
Jacobson v. US is very significant indeed.
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Talkn StangJuly 11, 2013 at 7:01 PM
People....if you, or somebody you know has any media contacts, let me know. I am currently,( and have been for a long time), working on every media angle i can. I do this on a daily basis and i work tirelessly to try to get the media to tell the truth. Now it might not seem like it, but i have come a long ways and have established many contacts, but i cannot and will not say anything again about what will happen. What i will say is that when it does happen, and it will, EVERYONE WILL BE INFORMED! That is my guarantee!
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 12, 2013 at 11:55 AM
Thanks talknstand we all really appreciate what u are doing. Can you email me your presentation? Thanks a lot
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Justice MyersJuly 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM
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Justice MyersJuly 12, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Remember everybody at the end of the day the state MUST PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that we: (1) got on the internet with the intentions to victimize a minor (2) believed it was a "minor" (3) was engaged to intending to engage in illegal conduct before the sting (4) knowingly seduced, solicited, lured, or enticed a minor. If law enforcement can't prove ALL of these, then by law the cases should be dropped because the statute REQUIRES these things. Focus on the fact that the statute clearly NEEDS these things to have happened in order to arrest under this statute, rather than they just did nothing to enforce them. The state HAS to prove you committed what is REQUIRED by the statute or no conviction.
It seems like these people REALLY want you to go to trial so they can screw you over. They know they can convince the jurors just off morals alone that what you did was wrong that's why they want trial so bad. I'm sure they'll appeal EVERY case that gets dismissed based on entrapment, so just be ready for that if your case gets dismissed.
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freedom070476July 13, 2013 at 2:25 PM
In case it wasn't already known, here is where FL ICAC funding is coming from and where it is going.
http://www.recovery.gov/espsearch/Pages/advanced.aspx?data=recipientAwardsList&State=FL&Agency=15&AwardType=CGL&CFDA_CODE=86
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aladdinJuly 13, 2013 at 5:57 PM
That's only the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act part of it which represents just under 30% of the total. The rest is in the form of Missing Children's Assistance grants, CFDA 16.543
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Talkn StangJuly 16, 2013 at 1:43 PM
and the Edward Byrnes Memorial Justice Assistance Grants (JAG) which is a BIG one as well
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Talkn StangJuly 16, 2013 at 1:17 PM
Tomorrow will be a great day for the cause, or at least we hope!
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Talkn StangJuly 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM
here is some good case law
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ne-supreme-court/1206022.html
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freedom070476July 16, 2013 at 4:34 PM
For screwed in lee county, can you tell me which website was your sting, Craigslist Casual Encounters, Plenty of Fish, or some other?
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screwed in lee countyJuly 18, 2013 at 12:23 PM
It was on grindr. it is an iphone app that you musy download to your phone. you must confirm 3xs that u are over 18. It is a moderated site. if u try to post a profile witha minors age. it get blocked. i have never met a minor on this site and te cop never said his true age
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Talkn StangJuly 16, 2013 at 7:52 PM
if anyone in Tallahassee area involved in stings or attorneys with sting cases pending Be present tomorrow morning at the 1stDCA courtroom2 level 2 Case # 1d12-3407
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 9:12 AM
it is rather disappointing to know that nobody in Tally even showed up for a hearing that will help their case. I know i put the word out and didn't get any emails from anyone in Tally interested. I can only do so much to help
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freedom070476July 17, 2013 at 3:53 PM
What were the details about this case, in terms of the Appeal? It appeared the defendant had only one charge. The yet to be scheduled jury trials (or appeals) for the Manatee County cases that were recently dismissed will surely be a great test and forum for the cause.
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 17, 2013 at 7:17 PM
I was there....but my pre trial was at the same time in a different court room
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 8:40 PM
wait, were you able to view it online? i caught only the 1st 30 secs.
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Talkn StangJuly 18, 2013 at 7:25 AM
freedom070476....you are correct about those 2 cases being a great test and forum for the cause. We definitely could use an appellate court victory and that is why yesterday's oral argument was so important. I have not seen it yet, but a decision should be made soon....hopefully reversing that conviction. That case is very similar to the Jothilingam case
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 3:30 PM
you won't believe this crap....it looks like Santa Clause is in trouble with the law for stuffing some little girls stocking a bit too much this past x-mas. I hear Judd has an extradition order for him and his crew to go to the North Pole and arrest his ass cuz it happened in Polk County back on December 25th, lmao
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 3:48 PM
here is a sting i invented quite a while ago....heres my sting i invented a few months back......i think its a great idea, lol
Ok, here it is......i am going to set up a cotton candy machine outside the police department and sell me some cotton candy to all the pigs that come in and out of the building. I will have a sign with big letters saying "COTTON CANDY 1$" and wear a shirt that says "Normal Law Abiding Citizen" And i will make money and keep criminals off the streets. If you are asking yourself, "how would selling cotton candy outside a police department keep criminals off the streets?" well, unbeknownst to the piggies, in the bottom corner of the sign in little tiny letters of invisible ink it says, "if you feel a little funny after eating your cotton candy and find yourself coming back for more, thats because it is laced with crack that was stolen from your vault while you were away for lunch. We will be making a citizens arrest soon for you purchasing your own illegal drugs. In the mean time, keep coming back for more. Yum Yum" Citizens on Patrol - we are wiping up the crime that law enforcement leaves behind. It is time for us to police the police, lol
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 3:52 PM
and i am not anti-police.....society is too large for us to govern ourselves, but when we have this type of corruption occurring in our country, then we need to poke some fun at those who are responsible. As i have always said, just like there are dirty cops, there are dirty cop operations. We will have the last laugh when it is all said and done!
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Talkn StangJuly 17, 2013 at 8:45 PM
if anyone was able to view todays oral arguments, please post some details here.
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Talkn StangJuly 18, 2013 at 6:57 PM
Those oral arguments are now viewable. Great job with the defense.....much stronger argument than the state's manufactured BS. http://www.1dca.org/video/2013.htm 12-3407
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Justice MyersJuly 19, 2013 at 8:27 AM
Remember everyone we need to focus very HEAVILY on the statutes for these cases. The state MUST prove that we got on the internet with the intentions to "knowingly solicit, lure, entice a minor", we believed it was a minor, we were engaged in illegal conduct before the sting. These things are EXTREMELY important because they are CLEARLY what these statutes REQUIRE for a conviction, and that can't be disputed. Even if the trial courts are being corrupt I really believe in appeal there will be a very good chance for all these cases, because no matter how hard they want to try, they CANNOT PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT those important things. At the end of the day, the burden of proof is on the STATE to prove they had a right to arrest you in the FIRST PLACE (let alone convict you) based on the statutes requirements.
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aladdinJuly 19, 2013 at 12:16 PM
The jury instructions for some of the 847.0135 charges:
847.0135(3)(a) - SOLICITING A CHILD FOR UNLAWFUL SEXUAL CONDUCT USING COMPUTER SERVICES OR DEVICES
847.0135(3)(b) - SOLICITING A PARENT, LEGAL GUARDIAN, OR CUSTODIAN OF A CHILD FOR UNLAWFUL SEXUAL CONDUCT USING COMPUTER SERVICES OR DEVICES
847.0135(4)(a) - TRAVELING TO MEET A MINOR
847.0135(4)(b) - TRAVELING TO MEET A MINOR FACILITATED BY PARENT, LEGAL GUARDIAN, OR CUSTODIAN
These instructions list all of the elements of the crime the State is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
The jury instructions for other charges can be found on the Florida Supreme Court website under Standard Jury Instructions for Criminal Cases
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Justice MyersJuly 20, 2013 at 12:54 AM
Thanks, they basically have to prove exactly what I said. IF they are "proving" these things in court, I don't understand how because they're impossible under these circumstances.
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aladdinJuly 20, 2013 at 11:22 AM
Don't get me wrong, I understand exactly what you're saying I just thought it would help for people to know the exact burden of proof for the State.
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Justice MyersJuly 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM
No problem, thanks again.
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Talkn StangJuly 19, 2013 at 9:29 AM
here is the article i used in the presentation if you havn't seen it. This is the proof that these stings are a waste of taxpayer dollars and that they are "cooking the books" Using sex as bait to arrest men who are not predisposed to committ these types of crimes is ILLEGAL. THEY ARE LYING TO THE WORLD
http://www.alligator.org/news/local/article_995d8298-51c3-11e1-b651-0019bb2963f4.html
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Talkn StangJuly 19, 2013 at 11:58 AM
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 20, 2013 at 7:27 AM
The main problem with the charges is that even though they lure the adults and solicit the adult, when the adults finally accept to talk to the fale minor they want to show the court that you accepted the conversation and u went to meet the minor. In the eyes of the public we are guilty as they come. We know that we are not on the web looking for that but the public is sold already with lies. Only way to clear all this is with goverment intervention and news channel.
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Justice MyersJuly 20, 2013 at 10:37 AM
I fully understand you that's the reason they want a trial SO bad. But if you look at the statutes they can't even prove the VERY FIRST question which asks if the defendant got on the internet to victimize a minor. It CLEARLY says that, and they can't dispute that no matter how hard they try. I wonder if people who have been convicted focused on this...What I wish could happen is like the Cruz courts did, before even being prosecuted the state should be asked whether the defendant was engaged in illegal activity before the sting, whether they got on the computer knowingly with intentions of victimizing a minor etc. if these simple questions can't be answered the case should BY LAW go no further. Bottom line is LAWFULLY it's IMPOSSIBLE for the state to prove their case PERIOD. I truly think this is very important and will help tremendously, if not in trial court, definitely appeals.
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Talkn StangJuly 20, 2013 at 9:31 AM
you are correct and that is being worked on at the present time
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Talkn StangJuly 21, 2013 at 5:39 PM
Something these courts seem to forget too is that entrapment is about the actions of law enforcement and not any guilt, etc by the defendant. Just because you continue a conversation after they say they are a minor doesnt mean you are guilty.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 22, 2013 at 12:39 PM
Can we contact the judges and open their eyes? So they are better informed on what is really going on?
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devotedgfJuly 22, 2013 at 2:55 PM
They don't care at all. I spent a lot of money to a lawyer and he said we had a gold case the best out of all the ones he was working on. The judge didn't even look at anything or read it as soon as he got it he denied it. It was on a sentence reduction since his other lawyer screwed him over on the appeal.
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freedom070476July 22, 2013 at 4:51 PM
I know exactly what you mean. I think maybe the only ways to combat this are a class action lawsuit, and each of the accused should request their attorney to file a motion to dismiss due to entrapment and citing the Supreme Court decision regarding Jacobson, i.e. "Decision: In their zeal to enforce the law, Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute."
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devotedgfJuly 25, 2013 at 7:25 AM
A class action lawsuit is what I had in mind if we could get as many of the victims in this crime to come together with all the information that all of us have and combine into one case that would get the medias attention and everyone elses for that matter. something to think about doing I have been doing research and calling a few lawyers in what spare time I have but no one wants to take this on.
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Talkn StangJuly 22, 2013 at 2:16 PM
its a DoJ thing, unless somebody has really good connections
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 22, 2013 at 4:08 PM
Does anyone know the decision on that appeal that happened on the 17th?
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Sandra RollinsJuly 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM
TPD and ICAC is running a sting on Craiglist and actually have it listed as a 12 yr old titled "Summer is almost over"
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Sandra RollinsJuly 23, 2013 at 4:35 AM
Another ad to be aware of is "Summer fun" posted on June 26th. This one had a earning that it was a 12yr old that needed some parental control and her computer taken. Guess they encouraged CL to remove the warning for the ad. Suggest people stay off CL
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 23, 2013 at 6:58 AM
I bet if they put the ad and says 12 years nobody or just the real predator will respond. I would love to see the results of that sting.
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freedom070476July 23, 2013 at 4:32 PM
I'm curious about the ad on Craigslist by a "12 yr old". Has guidance come down about the way the ads have been posted, i.e., entrapment? Exactly where on Craigslist was the ad?
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Sandra RollinsJuly 23, 2013 at 6:02 PM
Ad was in casual encounters Tallahassee CL. They removed it but the ad posted on June 26 is still there
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Sandra RollinsJuly 25, 2013 at 4:48 PM
Guess Christopher Harrison was the unlucky person who was caught on CL. They were careful about how the article was written. And it was a little different with support how they bought up entrapment
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Sandra RollinsJuly 26, 2013 at 6:26 PM
He also has a $!00000 bond
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Talkn StangJuly 23, 2013 at 8:44 AM
good finds people....keep up the great work.
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Sandra RollinsJuly 23, 2013 at 6:10 PM
The ad posted on June 26 has no age associated with it but someone answered and posted a warning for others not to answer. The more important question is what have they submitted to DO j for reimbursement when their numbers have been falling.
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Talkn StangJuly 23, 2013 at 6:11 PM
it is very seldom that someone actually posts a real ad "pimping" their kids out, but law enforcement has made it seem as if it happens all the time. Rarely does a minor post any ad on CL anyway, but according to law enforcement it too happens all the time. Although sting operations are a fabrication, law enforcement is deceiving the public with their lies and even committing criminal acts when they falsify arrest reports. How far will they push these stings remains to be seen, but i wouldnt put anything past them.
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aladdinJuly 23, 2013 at 7:36 PM
Here's a pretty good article with some hard numbers for Backpage. It covers what all Backpage does to block ads it thinks are indicative of child exploitation and the kicker? Only .04% of the ads blocked are suspected of child exploitation! 1/25 of 1 percent. How much are you willing to bet that most of those blocked ads were placed by the cops?
Sex Trafficking On Backpage.com: Much Ado About (Statistically) Nothing
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screwed in lee countyJuly 23, 2013 at 6:39 PM
The cops also are stepping on Miranda rights. in the operation spiders it seems the cops were bringing people into interrogations and asking them "do u know why your here?" Or something similar. its a tactic to get an incriminating statement and then give you Miranda which the supreme court has ruled ad illegal. if this happened to you let me know. I have a great motion written by my attorney. the states response "it was inadvertent mistake" ohhhh t please trained cops didn't know the Miranda rule.
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ulises torresJuly 24, 2013 at 8:10 AM
please i would like to get an motion paper that u wrote or your attorney. thank you
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Talkn StangJuly 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM
can you give us some info about yourself? you can email me at talknstang@yahoo.com
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ulises torresJuly 24, 2013 at 1:44 PM
I have send you a message on your gmail. But haven't get no answer. Please reply ill send you more especific inf about my case.
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Talkn StangJuly 24, 2013 at 4:55 PM
send to my yahoo
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screwed in lee countyJuly 24, 2013 at 5:06 PM
Houses Torres post it email address and I can forward the motion paper to you. if the cops asked any questionsof you once in custody bit didn't give you Miranda any pre Miranda and post Miranda statements are inadmissable. look up us supreme court decision Seibert. I believe it was in 2000 or 2004
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aladdinJuly 24, 2013 at 6:01 PM
Can you put a copy here?
http://dbinbox.com/aladdin4d
If you want I'll redact it so people can read it without knowinf it pertains to you.
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ulises torresJuly 24, 2013 at 7:27 PM
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screwed in lee countyJuly 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM
Aladdin has a copy of my motion to suppress the "interrogation" done by the police. IT IS VERY GOOD and I believe on July 31st I should win it. if not it is an appellate issue
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Talkn StangJuly 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM
awesome, thanks for the help
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ulises torresJuly 26, 2013 at 2:31 AM
I have send inf myself to talkstang to get this motion paper. Screwed in lee county this my ulisest5502@gmail.com thank you
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Talkn StangJuly 25, 2013 at 6:58 PM
This is important.....i know what these stings have done to peoples lives and it is absolutely terrible, but if you were involved in a sting or know somebody who was who has contemplated suicide or seriously hurting themselves/yourself, let somebody know. We already have 2 confirmed suicides, 1 probable suicide and 2 staged suicides resulting from these stings and these are just the ones i am aware of. This is a horrible statistic that has gone unnoticed. It is not worth losing a life over and there are many working behind the scenes to put a stop to these illegal operations and have them exposed. There is HOPE
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screwed in lee countyAugust 4, 2013 at 8:18 PM
After my arrest last October all I wants to do was die. I was humilated and scared of serving serious jail time. I thought and planned my suicide. came very close to doing it. I sought help from a shrink and my partner supports me.
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Justice MyersJuly 26, 2013 at 12:06 PM
I have a good idea I believe which could began to help the 'unbelievers' and the people who don't know what to think, in realizing the police are entrapping innocent men. I think the next time a sting comes bouncing back (which I'm almost guaranteed there's one going where I am and I've heard other places), we should post the ICAC Standards/Mou, which we all know proves what we've been saying, to the people on all the news sites comments section. WE ALL NEED to be commenting on those sites people it's important if you really want to help. You can sway people, especially with the TRUTH and evidence to back it up. Now I know many might not like this idea, because you think it may affect of impending trials etc. But my question is how? The way I see it, we have them, are gonna use them against them and there's NOTHING they can do about it. They pertain to these cases a lot that's why they're hiding them (they just have a good ass convincing excuse for it). Also I think 'leaking' that vital information would be their worse nightmare. I'm far from a legal expert but I don't know what that could do to affect a case, to me it would help all around. Also what we're doing is not asking for a motion to compel the procedures or anything. We're just going to sneak them up on them, and if they want to dispute anything in those standards (which I'm sure they might), then they have to show the real ones to PROVE it. That's just what I'm doing, and wanted to suggest it, I'm open to opinions suggesting against it maybe I didn't think about something...
BTW is there gonna be a "old comments" 3 section soon?
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Justice MyersJuly 26, 2013 at 12:11 PM
Not saying ours isn't real, I meant show the procedures for my exact sting. Wanted to clarify that.
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 26, 2013 at 12:46 PM
That good idea i think myers. Also we should do a video with proves and info about the true on these stings and posted on youtube and share it on facebook. It will go viral.
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ulises torresJuly 26, 2013 at 1:17 PM
Well I have ask for help .. but no one really has email me. Nothing .Well u want more inf ill give you my case number I don't think what they did to me and my family they can pay back its up to god judge them. I just want justice that's all
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aladdinJuly 26, 2013 at 2:55 PM
There was another sting in Brevard County with 11 arrested.
Brevard County Sting
The Brevard County Sheriff's press release:
BCSO Press Release
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 26, 2013 at 4:09 PM
There is proof that you don't have to travel to get arrested as well. All you have to do is have a conversation online and they will come and get you.
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aladdinJuly 26, 2013 at 4:51 PM
The report says there was only one that didn't travel but looking at the charges it looks like there were two that didn't. The warrant for the one they mention was issued on 07/02/2012
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ulises torresJuly 26, 2013 at 5:42 PM
Aladdin there's a way I can get a copy of motion paper to my email. Please ill really appreciate it. Any inf u want inf about me ill give to you.
Thank you
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screwed in lee countyJuly 26, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Omg were those guys idiots? With all the press going on about these stings and postings on craigslist. why would these dim bulbs agree to meet a minor for sex. the cops do use bait and switch as was proven in the 2nd court of appeals oral arguments last week. th one guy brought a 17yr old to have sex with the minor and he was abusing the 17yr old. wake up florida. if the ad says sex with a minor run away its the cops.
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aladdinJuly 26, 2013 at 4:54 PM
So far nothing talks about where the sting took place this time but you can be pretty sure they were bait and switch if they were on Craigslist.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJuly 28, 2013 at 4:29 AM
What 2nd DCA case?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJuly 28, 2013 at 4:46 AM
While the bait and switch is illegal, everyone should remember that it is also illegal to randomly target citizens. I.e. If the cops randomly target a house looking for drugs and they find drugs, all the evidence obtained should be suppressed as a matter of law and the case dropped.
Due process concerns judicial procedure that must happen or that right has been violated. While it is true that law enforcement should not be using the expressed or implied interest in sex to induce men to commit crimes, before we even get to that argument the fact remains that they cannot randomly perform undercover stings. Otherwise, the cops are either creating crime for the sole purpose of making arrests or they are getting lucky when they catch someone who may be predisposed. These two facts are not law enforcement, and therefore due process violations, and even the "predisposed" person must be set free under the objective theory of entrapment.
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freedom070476July 28, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Exactly DueProcessIsDue. That's what the Supreme Court stated in U.S. Supreme Court Case, Jacobson v. United States (90-1124), 503 U.S. 540 (1992). Decision: In their zeal to enforce the law, Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute.
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screwed in lee countyJuly 28, 2013 at 9:19 AM
Sorry I meant the 1st dca. the one female judge had serious issues with the sting an kept going back to the definition of encouragement. I have been looking for oral arguments to be assigned for the 2nd appeals out of manatee. judge lakin's dismissal of the defendants. but nothing up to Sept has been assigned.
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Justice MyersJuly 28, 2013 at 10:10 AM
Something else to help with inducement is defining bait and switch and how it became about. Bait and switch tactics derived from companies INDUCING customers to visit a store by advertising fake sale items (bait) and then inform the customer that they don't have that item but a more expensive superior item (switch).
This is taken from dictionary.com: A deceptive commercial practice in which customers are induced to visit a store by an advertised sale item and then are told that it is out of stock or that it is far inferior to some more expensive item.
The fact of the matter is that ANYTIME you have to "bait" something IT IS inducement, becuase you would have never gotten it otherwise. If you don't put cheese on a mouse trap, I can almost guarantee you won't catch a mouse.
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 28, 2013 at 10:20 AM
If you were caught in a sting prior to feb 2012, Craigslist's policies state that bait and switch ads are prohibited as well as false ads. So law enforcement blatantly violates the policy by posting ads for people who are following the policies. To me that is entrapment. I still have a copy of the policy prior to Feb 2012 if anyone wants it. In Feb 2012 they changed their policy and it no longer says anything about "Bait and Switch" unless they changed it back
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aladdinJuly 28, 2013 at 3:23 PM
Here is a motion to dismiss that also covers the bait and switch issue fairly well. The motion was denied but still worth looking through.
Good Bait and Switch Motion
And here is the Craigslist policy Prince Machiavelli is talking about.
Craigslist Policy
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 28, 2013 at 4:21 PM
Thank Aladdin :)
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comJuly 28, 2013 at 4:03 PM
The Florida Action Committee wants letters:
http://hopeforalovedone.weebly.com/write-letter.html
Found it at:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Florida-Scandal/276415312463746
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higher primateJuly 31, 2013 at 11:20 AM
I'm not in Florida but in a similar situation in Texas. I came across this blog as I was doing research for my case. I placed an ad on Craigslist in the casual encounters section, my ad specifically stated I was seeking a woman (adult female)! Yet officers still responded to my ad initiating the contact and pretended to be a 16yr old female. I have no criminal history and actually work for the government myself as a mechanic. I have a private lawyer and was offered no plea deal. What can I do to show that this was entrapment and the cops used and ADULT website and replied to my ADULT ad to trick me. I never had any intention of doing anything illegal in the first place and they put the hought in my head by even responding to my ADULT ad. How can I get my charges dropped or my case dismissed?
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aladdinJuly 31, 2013 at 12:09 PM
Texas case law on entrapment
Texas case law on Soliciting a Minor Online Texas Penal Code § 33.021
ICAC OPERATIONAL AND INVESTIGATIVE STANDARDS AND FEDERAL LAW
Start with those. The trick is going to be finding cases and situations that apply to you. There is a link at the top right of this page to some other case law that includes some federal cases that may apply to you as well.
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Prince MachiavelliJuly 31, 2013 at 12:44 PM
For those of you in any of the sting where law enforcement used your cell phone to track you, this news came out from the US 5ht district court of appeals, regarding warrantless cell phone tracking.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/technology/warrantless-cellphone-tracking-is-upheld.html?_r=0
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FightingthechargesJuly 31, 2013 at 12:55 PM
Guys, I've been in contact with some of you for a while now but just made an account to post on here. I have my trial set in September and haven't heard much in the last couple of months. All of you guys have done a great job on finding information! I have forwarded tons of information to my lawyer to try and help my case. Here's what bothers me none of us have a criminal history, none of us are violent or committed violent crimes, and they want to send us away for years? For what? Because we talked to someone that was made up? I get the crime, and the seriousness of the crime and I am all about keeping pedophiles off the street and incarcerating them. However none of us are so called "predators", just people that were tricked psychologically. I will be posting more frequent now, sorry it took me awhile to get on here. Talknstang I will email you to let you know who this is.
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Talkn StangJuly 31, 2013 at 3:35 PM
Gotcha.....you have to remember, an arrest is just a statistic to them. They obviously do not care whether anyone is a true predator or not due to the fact they are not properly trying to determine who fits the profile of a predator and this is a lack of training issue in my opinion after all the depositions i have read. These cops are not properly trained on entrapment and it seems as if the courts, for the most part are unclear of the definition as it relates to these stings as well. There seems to be some confusion in the minds of judges on what inducement is, but the statute also uses "encouragement", which is easier to understand. Inducement is a very vague term so attorney's need to focus on entrapment using the term "encouragement" instead. I believe this will help since 777.201 is pretty clearly defined.
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Talkn StangJuly 31, 2013 at 3:44 PM
for those of you who have not read this article, it is quite alarming indeed. I used the data from this article in my presentation and an article i wrote as well
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-02-06/news/os-sex-offenders-rise-florida-orlando-20120206_1_adam-walsh-child-protection-offenders-undercover-operation
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HavanawebsolutionsJuly 31, 2013 at 4:26 PM
Fightingthecharges you just explain what this is real about. Is exactly that. Im all for the real sex offenders to go to prison but all of us were just tricked even thought in my case I said. I dont want to talk to you, leave me alone, bye. Even that they came again after me. What is that called??
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Justice MyersAugust 1, 2013 at 2:17 AM
I was just about to comment on inducement, about something very important that I surely think will help us. I just got a chance to really read over all the information in the two Manatee cases (if you haven't you should). And I came across something interesting, in I want to say in the Jothilingam case granting his motion to dismiss, don't quote me but I definitely read it. What I read during the courts opinion was when the state was trying to refute that he was induced, they repeatedly said "he wasn't induced because we were never the first ones to bring up sex". I've always been looking for something like this, they're obviously not on our side, they know the law, they work in conjunction with agencies conducting stings. Now I know this isn't from a higher court, but I'm sure if your attorney can just explain why he thinks it's important it will be alright. I'm aware this isn't LAW..BUT it is prosecutors basically admitting entrapment. We know sex induces people, but doesn't really specifically say in any case law, so that's why I'm so interested in it. If you were solicited for sex first(which EVERYONE was) I would say definitely try to use that to your advantage.
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Justice MyersAugust 1, 2013 at 2:20 AM
And of course State v. Banks ties into this as well.
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Talkn StangAugust 1, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Those cases, although not binding yet, can be used to help anyone's case and they have actually already been used in an appeal (decision still pending. The decision making process used by judge Lakin was sound although the state is appealing those rulings. The biggest thing about those cases is that it gives us something to work with since we know these operations are entrapment
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Talkn StangAugust 1, 2013 at 3:02 PM
an unfortunate day for a guy in the TallyOp sting...5yrs prison and that is total BS. People, if you file a motion for entrapment, then take your case to trial, even if it is denied then at trial have your attorney ask for the jury instruction on entrapment. Do not take a plea deal unless it includes no jail time. It is so important to have an entrapment motion filed because as i have stated before, it gives you grounds for an appeal and an appellate bond will keep you out of prison. Tallahassee has been the most brutal on sentencing in these cases! I am no attorney, but we know from past experiences of cases....we have seen just about every frickin scenario there is. The biggest thing is to communicate with your attorney!
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Talkn StangAugust 1, 2013 at 5:46 PM
also, if your attorney just not want your input or take your ideas/thoughts into consideration then you have the wrong attorney. We have provided information on this blog to help people out. They, in turn, must get that information to their attorneys. If their attorney doesn't do anything with it, you have the wrong attorney. You should be in constant communication with your attorney...basically a pain in the ass!
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Brian RAugust 2, 2013 at 12:39 PM
Polk had two cases, first one got ten years.
Next got youthful act, probation.
Not sure Tallahassee is the worst.
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aladdinAugust 2, 2013 at 2:07 PM
So far for Operation Cyber Child in Polk County half of the cases have been disposed. Out of the 19 cases resolved 3 were No bill, no charges ever filed by the state, 10 resulted in prison time with 5 of those receiving a downward departure below sentencing guidelines. 2 cases were community control with adjudication withheld, 2 more were probation adjudication withheld. Another community control adjudicated guilty and 1 more probation adjudicated guilty.
In contrast with all but a few cases from TallyOp disposed there has been 1 acquittal in federal court, 2 downward departures, and 1 probation. The rest have been prison at or above sentencing guidelines. Leon county is the worst.
The other thing about the TallyOp guys is they have been on house arrest and GPS the entire time only being able to go anywhere a few hours a week.
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Talkn StangAugust 2, 2013 at 1:26 PM
Something i want to reiterate on.....file as many damn motions as possible. If they are denied, and your case is not frivolous, you can appeal those denials..... then if you are sentenced, you can request an appellate bond keeping you from being incarcerated. Do not take a straight plea deal....work with your attorney. If you have any questions on the appellate bond process, i have all the answers you need!
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Talkn StangAugust 2, 2013 at 2:33 PM
I consider Tally to be the worst due to the fact that the media keeps the dispositions of those sentenced live and well in the news. Being that it is the state capitol, i believe they are trying to set an example and the media has been most unfair. Without looking at my notes, Operation Blue Shepherd had some severe sentences imposed.....some as many as 15yrs. I think that sting had a 100% conviction rate unfortunately, but it is not over yet!
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freedom070476August 2, 2013 at 6:21 PM
For Justice Myers, which State v. Banks case were you referring to? There seems to be several. Thanks.
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aladdinAugust 2, 2013 at 11:35 PM
State v. Banks, 499 So. 2d 894 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 1986
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freedom070476August 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM
Does anyone have any additional information regarding the two Manatee County cases that were initially dismissed due to entrapment, and subsequently appealed by the State?
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aladdinAugust 4, 2013 at 2:35 PM
Maniscalco's case number is 2D13-2856 and Jothilingam's is 2D13-2737. You can look them up here:
Florida District Courts of Appeal Online Docket
So far nothing interesting is happening in either case.
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Talkn StangAugust 4, 2013 at 5:22 PM
Letting everyone know I am going to be out of commission for a bit. I will do the best i can to check on things...... There is still hope people, and regardless if i have to disappear for a bit, i will still be at it trying to take care of media. Thanks
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higher primateAugust 5, 2013 at 12:17 PM
Does the above ICAC standards apply only to florida or is that something I can potentially use to present to my lawyer in Texas. It says federal so I'm assuming this applies to every state as well that uses ICAC standards?
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aladdinAugust 5, 2013 at 7:56 PM
Be sure to check out this too.
ICAC OPERATIONAL AND INVESTIGATIVE STANDARDS AND FEDERAL LAW
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Prince MachiavelliAugust 5, 2013 at 1:38 PM
I believe you can use it in Texas as well because It Originates from the Department of Justice
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 8, 2013 at 6:09 AM
Justiceee
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Prince MachiavelliAugust 8, 2013 at 8:53 AM
???
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 8, 2013 at 1:21 PM
Hi guys i have a question .. What probation adjudication withheld mean?? When you get that and what that represent?
Thanks
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Prince MachiavelliAugust 8, 2013 at 1:38 PM
It means that once you finish out your probation the charges have the ability to be expunged and no longer appear on your record
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 8, 2013 at 3:30 PM
TROOPS ASSEMBLE!!! WE NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS ASAP!!! Everyone do what you need to do to get in on this congressional investigation. SOMEONE please contact "Kitty Wolf" on Facebook and tell her about "Florida Scandal" (here and on Facebook). Here is the url to the story:
http://www.federaljack.com/a-reporter-has-decided-to-report-his-findings-to-congress-that-icefbi-may-be-setting-people-up-with-child-porn/
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 8, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Yes, "Florida Scandal" is on Facebook.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 8, 2013 at 11:43 PM
Looking for NSA for my first time!! - m4m - 18 (SW Cape Coral)
I'm looking to hookup, once or multiple times, no strings attached since I'm a sophomore in HS. I'm a bottom, but I'm willing to try anything!
either its a dumb 18yr old sophomore or a 15yr old or the cops.everyone should mass.email him. tell him its illegal for a 15yr old to ask an.adult for sex. criminal conspiracy
Location: SW Cape Coral
craigslist post tonight. either its a dumb 18yr old sophomore or the pigs. tempting to call the police and report this kid looking for sex with an older man which is illegal. thus this 15 yr old needs to be arrested and charged with criminal conspiracy. he's asking an adult to Collier the crime.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 9, 2013 at 7:16 AM
I already post a comment on the website post above telling the true about this stings and mention this website. Lets all make coments please we have to win this.
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Justice MyersAugust 10, 2013 at 10:06 AM
Just something to think about, in ALL these stings the men are being enticed by the adult ads/profiles. Now if you look up the legal definition of enticement (which they do all the time in court) [To wrongfully solicit, persuade, procure, allure, attract, draw by blandishment, coax, or seduce. To lure, induce, tempt, incite, or persuade a person to do a thing] you will see that they use words like INDUCE, lure etc. as words in the definition and as synonyms. And in definitions from other sources, they always use induce as a synonym, and also words like bait, seduce etc. Enticement is also you doing something for personal pleasure, gain or reward. Enticement IS inducement, so if it's hard to maybe prove you were induced, maybe you can show you were enticed and prove how enticement clearly = inducement. And remember even subtle government pressure, if applied skillfully is inducement.
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Talkn StangAugust 11, 2013 at 12:13 AM
if you watched the oral arguments on case 1d12-3407, you will see how the appellant's attorney clarified issue of inducement just by using the precise language of 777.201. The statute says "inducement OR encouragement". I think we can all agree that the later term is most understood by most. What was funny about that is that one judge asked "where do you draw the line on inducement?" right after the attorney clarified the terminology, lol.....but I think these judges just might be seeing what is exactly going on in these operations now and hopefully we will get our 1st appellate court victory with that case as well. Remember, entrapment is not about any guilt of the defendant, it is about the actions of law enforcement. It is not a difficult concept to understand, yet they always want to blame the defendant for what they should have done or said, etc. and that is wrong.
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freedom070476August 10, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Another recent FL appellate court decision of note (Case # 5D11-3421, 05/28/13): In State vs. Justin Timothy Morgan in Citrus County FL (Case # 1010CF001184), the defendant was acquitted of the standard charges, i.e., soliciting, traveling, but convicted on attempted lewd and lascivious. Defendant appealed, and 5th DCA stated trial court erred in not allowing defense of entrapment.
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Talkn StangAugust 10, 2013 at 11:47 PM
that is awesome news.....I am about to search for that written decision now... I am back online by the way, lol. I am also going to post the whole appellate bond process and how it works shortly for everyone since I have been getting some emails inquiring about them. There seems to be some confusion on how they work and I will straighten it all out for everyone. Good to be back posting
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Talkn StangAugust 10, 2013 at 11:53 PM
n/m we already have that info, oops....that case has been mandated as well.
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Prince MachiavelliAugust 11, 2013 at 9:03 AM
Welcome back, hope everything is well. I get worried when people suddenly leave for a short period of time.
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personAugust 11, 2013 at 12:01 PM
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personAugust 11, 2013 at 12:04 PM
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personAugust 11, 2013 at 12:28 PM
wearechange.org founder receives spoofed email containing child porn images
virus-planted child porn
various child-porn sting/entrapment news bits
fbi busts and runs pedo site
tennessee jury-trial: adult-minor sting
facebook group dedicated to fbi "flicker" stings
facebook group dedicated to autistic, minor victim of flicker sting
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Talkn StangAugust 11, 2013 at 5:43 PM
thank you for those links PERSON. Some of the research i have done the past few years about these stings has caused me to seriously question governments involvement in CP as well. Without getting into it to much, it is quite possible that the DoJ, on one hand, says that they are protecting the children by implementing projects like Safe Childhood yet on the other, they are (certain elements and not only the DoJ) exploiting children and child pornography for the "cash cow" it generates. IT WOULD BE THE PERFECT GUISE as sickening as it sounds! CP is a scary thing and I have been in contact with "a person of importance" who was doing a study on ICAC funding, but then she actually went on national news about the governments involvement in CP......and now we have a reporter supposedly to testify before congress about this as well. It makes you wonder what else the government is doing to its own citizens....
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Talkn StangAugust 11, 2013 at 5:50 PM
for those of you who would like to watch that news report, here is the link......this is very disturbing indeed. I will keep people informed if i hear anything further from her. I did send her the link from Federaljack.com.....
http://www.occupythebanks.com/2013/01/opcleansweep-hero-lori-handrahan.html
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Scott SelfeAugust 12, 2013 at 10:03 AM
Good find STANG. Are you saying you have Lori Hanlahan on speed dial now? From this story it looks like she is interested in ferreting out that whole mess, and we can only hope she would be interested in digging into these sting cases
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Talkn StangAugust 12, 2013 at 4:23 PM
i have her contact information for sure, lol...but she is practically in hiding and lost her job at American University over all this crap. She knows what is going on in Florida, i have informed her, but she doesnt have the ability to tackle anything else at the moment from what she told me, although i never asked. But what she does have are a gazillion contacts within the DoJ and elsewhere we could use. Hopefully i will hear back from her soon. There is a lot going on right now behind the scenes and as much as i would like to inform everyone the details, we just cant take a chance of screwing anything up that we have worked so hard on....i am more confident in ever that we will succeed
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Jothi SAugust 12, 2013 at 11:31 AM
Dear DueProcess,
I'm the person Jothilingam whom case got dismissed recently in Manatee County.Your blog gave me a moral support and lot of legal help in my case.A great thanks for your help for saving my life.Keep doing your good work.I pray god to give you all good health and wealth and for the innocent people to get relief who get caught in these stings.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 12, 2013 at 2:58 PM
Jothi can you email me at habanawebsolutions@gmail.com? Im on the process now of submiting a motion to dismiss. I would like to get in touch with you to see the differences in our cases. Thanks a lot..
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Talkn StangAugust 12, 2013 at 4:17 PM
we cannot even begin to tell you how elated we were when we found those decisions. Now we finally have a judge who actually made a sound decision and ruled properly on those 2 cases, which in turn gives us something to work with. Yours and Maniscalco's decisions have already been used in an appellate court case even though those decisions are not binding....that is how significant they are. Hopefully the appellate court will make the right decision as well. If so, we will have the precedent we need to help many others and it will give us the upper hand into shutting these operations down. Feel free to email me at talknstang@yahoo.com
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personAugust 12, 2013 at 7:58 PM
craigslist personals exclusively defines "casual encounters" as "sex with no strings attached". it's the last and only sex-based placement/categorisation option among four other options which are non-sex-based (e.g. strictly platonic). this demonstrates intentional placement by law enforcement as an advertisement for sex. in the instance of the "sisters" advetisement, combine that with the body of the advertisement describing two sisters and that demonstrates the police deliberately advertising a sexual solicitation for a minor, and granting consent by stating they are both seeking and ready for a man to "handle" them both.
here's an exhibit of the relevant posting process as it appeared on craigslist (as of 2011).
also, during posting process, notice that green fields are required and black are optional: putting an age is optional--meaning it can be left blank; therefore, including the age "19" in the sisters advertisement was unnecessary to post and intentionally misleading. annotated version of posting process in trial, when the witness april mccray was confronted with this situation, she decided to blatantly lie under testimony before the jury that the advertisement "sisters looking for a hot night" that she specifically designated as "sex with no strings attached" was not about sex and in case that failed, the prosecutor followed up examining her asking whether it was a matter of necessity to break the laws of florida to "catch a criminal" , when the defendant has no prior criminal charges or convictions (besides a DUI) and no evidence of "on-going" (or any) criminal activity; therefore not a criminal. unfortunately, the prosecutor kept badgering (the jury) for about 10 hours, and the jury lost sight of the facts due to mccray/prosecution and as a result rejected the entrapment defence. it's important to illustrate and reiterate the facts/messages, the order they happened in, what each was in response to, define the meanings of words: e.g. "handle" is not a word of consent, it's a word of physical ability or capacity, or management.
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personAugust 12, 2013 at 7:59 PM
anyone contending 847.0135 3b and 4b pay attention to the language used, specifically consent:
Solicit, lure, or entice, or attempt to solicit, lure, or entice a parent, legal guardian, or custodian of a child or a person believed to be a parent, legal guardian, or custodian of a child to consent to the participation of such child in any act described in chapter 794, chapter 800 (e.g. 800.04; lewd and lascivious battery), or chapter 827.
focus on who and where consent of sex with a minor was given, and if it was given by the law enforcement officer like the sisters advertisement/solicitation and they never withdrew that "offer" (even better if they instead enforced it and encouraged you to participate with both), i would make the argument that they originated the solicitation for sex with a minor in their advertisement and expressed consent for sex with a minor in their advertisement, and most likely during the chats they were instead soliciting you for consent; which is not the requirement of the statute, but seems to be how the court is interpreting it.
also if they attached the "Unlawful use of a two-way communications device" (934.215) to any attempted charge, such as "attempted lewd & lascivious battery", they are an incompatible mix and its application is invalid and must be dropped. 934.215 requires more than an attempt: "facilitate or further the commission of any felony offense"; it's stated in its statute.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 13, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Sounds to us like there is a "person" that has been doing their homework!!! The point is DO NOT LET YOUR ATTORNEYS MISLEAD YOU!!! THIS IS THE MOST COMMON THING THAT GETS CONVICTIONS FOR THE STATE!!! Well, other than being wrongfully prosecuted and arrested to start with of course.
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personAugust 12, 2013 at 8:25 PM
i believe it's important to correct anyone (specifically the courts) who refers to craigslist personals 'sex with no strings attached' is a chatroom; chatrooms are virtual conversations between a group about a topic not intended for physical meetings. physical sexual encounters is what craigslist "casual encounters" is exclusively about. the prosecution will also claim that "casual encounters" may not be sexual in nature.
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Talkn StangAugust 12, 2013 at 8:39 PM
New info on Georgia's sting operations. Looks like they have a new reporter on this story which would explain why i havnt heard from Joy Lukachick lately. I will handle that
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/10/judge-to-hear-motions-in-child-sex-sting-case/
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/23116486/only-on-3-fbi-confirms-investigation-into-chief-of-n-ga-sex-crimes-task-force
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/13/former-chief-fbi-task-force-faces-criminal-probe/
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Talkn StangAugust 12, 2013 at 9:14 PM
i am not sure if this is the appropriate time to say this, but i will anyway. The Polk county sheriff as well as others will eventually suffer the same fate as the special agent in this case. It is only a matter of time before the truth is exposed and those who are responsible should be held accountable. We already have the proof and i believe things are really starting to come together in our favor.
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leecountyAugust 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM
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screwed in lee countyAugust 13, 2013 at 10:30 AM
I also got caught up in operation spiderweb. there has been three cases dropped so far. I am fighting it in court because the officer was the first on to mention sex. read about the manager courts decision in two cases and the 1st dca case. no one should take a plea deal if they didn't believe they were meeting a minor
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screwed in lee countyAugust 13, 2013 at 10:49 AM
Also when your son was taking to the sting house. and he walked into to room. was it a female detective Enterline? Did she ask him "d you know why you are here? And get an incriminating statement and then give miranda. I have a motion to suppress the interrogation cause it violated a supreme court decision. still waiting for my judge to rule on it. but the star tried to say twas inadvertant. my lawyer proved she did it on 4 other cases. put up a fight. the state may back off. The three cases that got thrown out were. Zachary crane. Jacob duval. Javon stafford... I was in jail and heard about te dude that wa offered money for gas.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 13, 2013 at 3:16 PM
A LOT of men get offered gas money and still get convicted!!!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 13, 2013 at 3:29 PM
Entrapment is the same that it has always been!!! The Cruz court was the first court to establish an objective entrapment test (1. law enforcement were detecting the commission of an ongoing criminal activity and 2. they used means reasonably tailored to apprehend only those engaged in that activity) but was done away with by the enactment of the FL statute on entrapment since it adopted the subjective approach. THESE STINGS CLEARLY VIOLATE THE CRUZ TEST. However, we are still entitled to an objective entrapment defense but it is to be evaluated using the due process clause of the constitution. See Munoz.
Your "attorney" is making the mistake that most attorneys make by ignoring the objective entrapment approach. Furthermore, they are also ignoring the fact that just because someone SEEMS "ready and willing to commit a crime" does not mean they were not entrapped subjectively as well. Even the most subtle government pressure if skilfully applied can amount to inducement. The government taking advantage of a non-criminal motive can amount to inducement. See Jacobson. When law enforcement use sex or the EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED consent thereof to obtain contraband the defendant did not already poses, who is wise enough to determine if such an act uncovered an existing propensity or created a new one. See Banks.
Attorneys are also missing the fact that law enforcement can pose as a criminal TO OTHER CRIMINALS to induce the commission of a crime BUT NOT TO RANDOM PEOPLE and certainly not using sex as the inducement!!!
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Talkn StangAugust 13, 2013 at 8:49 AM
well i hate to tell you this, but your attorney is wrong. you can email me at talknstang@yahoo.com. I am totally swamped right now with sting related stuff, but we can get you some info for sure. The key is getting the attorney to listen to what we tell you. We are not attorneys, all we do is relay information from related cases we know about for attorneys to use and we have had a lot of success.
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Talkn StangAugust 13, 2013 at 8:52 AM
oh yea, and we also give people hope, or try to anyway....didn't want to leave that one out....and i would like to think we have had a lot of success with that as well. The blog has come a long way over the past year for sure
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Talkn StangAugust 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM
is this officers remarks in this article sound as if it was a good faith effort to catch a true predator? i will let you be the judge of that
http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/madison-man-arrested-in-florida-child-sex-sting-operation/article_a5a8b15d-9322-5383-b67f-294034a51a49.html
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Brian RAugust 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM
Jothilingam, can you contact me at brian@gcrconstructionco.com
I have a motion on Oct. 23 like yours, using your case as an example.
Can you tell me what to expect. We have 3 hours scheduled for our motions. Do people take the stand. How long until you get results from the motion. etc.
Because of people like you, others are following suit, but I am still a nervous wreck being a broken system. I would like to know what to expect, and hear about your case.
Thanks
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leecountyAugust 13, 2013 at 6:05 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 13, 2013 at 6:47 PM
If they questioned him before his Miranda have the lawyer refer to the Siebert. Supreme court ruling and make a motion to suppress his statements. The police screwed up a lot of these. I just wish more people would have fought their charges
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Justice MyersAugust 14, 2013 at 12:19 AM
The police screwed up bad and they know it, but they keep digging themselves deeper and deeper. It's just like a lie, you try to keep covering it up and there becomes holes in the story. That's what we all have to look for. For instance I love the way "person" thinks because he showed how they know they are intentionally breaking the law by soliciting the men for sex(in my case it can't be disputed at all whatsoever that they solicited me for sex)..but why would they do such a thing?...for grant money. Take not of this and make sure your attorney's know that once you read the statutes, law, and their ICAC Standards (add plain old common sense while you're at it) you will notice that everything pieces itself together like a puzzle, and they all state the same exact things just in different ways.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 14, 2013 at 12:09 PM
The decoy cop screwed up again. under oath he said the picture he posted on the profile was of another cop when he was 15. So he was told. this violates the standards which require 18 an older and must be a paid employee. I doubt the cop was working at age 15. The DOJ can revoke funding for failure to follow the standards. I also found out the task force can be sued by me for violating my due process. once I get this thrown out I will find a lawyer and sue them
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Talkn StangAugust 14, 2013 at 5:13 PM
we have had no luck getting the DOJ to listen. Not only is that a problem, but the DOJ has absolutely no oversight with these operations and the ICAC standards have already been rejected by a Florida court the only time a defense has tried to use them that i am aware of. This is something we are working to change, and without going into any details, we have a plan already in motion that will hopefully accomplish this, but it is not that easy. We know the wheels of justice are slow, but i think we are making progress at a much faster pace than before. My advice to anyone would to be drag your case out as long as possible...and communicate with your attorneys/public defenders as much as possible. Get involved in what they have going on as well....i promise you it will help
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aladdinAugust 14, 2013 at 5:29 PM
Actually there are more cases where the ICAC Standards have been used successfully in court than there have been successful motions to dismiss based on entrapment. We don't hear about that much because it occurs at the trial level and the State has yet to appeal such a case but it does happen. One attorney I know of has had at least 3 cases dropped by the State when he brought up the Standards.
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Talkn StangAugust 14, 2013 at 7:43 PM
and you are just now informing me of that? what is wrong with you boy? lol i thought our line of communication was better than that, lmao
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Talkn StangAugust 14, 2013 at 8:29 PM
unless it has slipped my mind, which is quite possible with everything sting related i have going on, i am only familiar with one case with the defense wanting to use the ICAC Ops standards. If we have other cases successfully utilizing them in their defense we need that info for sure if possible so we can pass it along to others who might have similar ICAC violations in their cases.
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Talkn StangAugust 15, 2013 at 2:12 PM
ok, i do remember now, it did slip my mind on the one case of Ryu Nolin. We will see what we can do to post the courtroom proceedings i have on that case at http://scriptogr.am/stoptheinsanity/post/icac-operational-and-investigative-standards-and-federal-law
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aladdinAugust 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Here's a little info on one of the cases.
ICAC Standards Dismissal
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 14, 2013 at 1:34 PM
I will do the same will sue the task force for violating my rights and by making my life and my family life so miserable..
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Talkn StangAugust 14, 2013 at 5:33 PM
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=871901795911787291&hl=en&as_sdt=2,10
This is a really good case from the 1stDCA
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personAugust 15, 2013 at 1:59 AM
this is regarding the court's view (1972) regarding entrapment and government agents' use of the lure of sex as bait creates a substantial risk to induce innocents (men) into a crime or criminal scenario.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 15, 2013 at 12:38 PM
What case are you referring to in 1972?
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aladdinAugust 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM
It's:
Spencer v. State, 263 So. 2d 282 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 1st Dist. 1972
Talkn Stang is slightly link disabled :)
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Justice MyersAugust 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM
Question...Does all the numerous case law that talks about predisposition being something the defendant possesses BEFORE government contact, NOT trump the "ready and willing" bs???
Also yes, it seems like our public defenders can be our worst enemies. My second one (who disresptfully hung up on me twice, and told me he's "the driver of this train, and I'm just along for the ride") who I had only talked with on the phone once scheduled trial...and I didn't even know. He even told me he asked the PROSECUTOR if this is entrapment(WTF?) and the prosecutor obviously said no, he didn't want to subpoena the website, wanted to make it seem like the case law I showed him wasn't important, basically I knew my own attorney was against me. During my FIRST pretrial conference (while others literally were going on 7 and 8th ones and still being granted another) I tried to have him dropped and get conflict free council. Well apparently the Supreme Court has said that basically in simple terms, when you are appointed an attorney you have no say-so in your case. Luckily I don't have him anymore, but it's scary because there's really not much else you can do, but defend yourself (which I'd actually love to do but I'm obviously not a lawyer and don't know the whole court process) if you can't afford a paid lawyer.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 16, 2013 at 12:15 AM
If you need a great lawyer I can refer u to mine. I have done a lot of legal research for my case to help him he is on the ball and is bliyzkrieging the hwok out of the prosecutor this week with motions that will loss them off. we haven't even filed a motion to.dismiss based on entrampant yet. Just motion to suppress The interrogation. And he's filing a motion to suppress the arrest. He's using a Florida case "travers" To challenge the actual arrest. If these motions fail then we're going for entrapment. Even though Florida considers entrapment An affirmative defense Where you have to plead guilty to the crime but argue the state made you do it. I found Supreme Court decision in Matthews Where the Supreme Court said you can argue you're innocent and And entrapment at the same time. The state will try to argue It's an affirmative defense But federal court rulings supersedes state. If you want my attorneysname.email me at delcodude1@gmail.com. Maybe we can help each other out
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Talkn StangAugust 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM
http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/_Arrest_of_34_Men_in_Sting_Operation_132047658.html
got a call this morning from Tally about 2 more men sentenced, but receiving a much lighter one than most.....but it appears that the moderator will not post my comments because from reading more on this story you can see some obvious ICAC violations right off the bat. POST MY DAMN COMMENTS YOU POS MODERATOR
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Justice MyersAugust 15, 2013 at 2:46 PM
Also, entrapment is basically it wasn't your idea of the commission of a crime, it has to be law enforcement's idea. In these internet stings, the commission of this specific crime is: "hey I'm gonna get on the internet with the intentions of victimizing a minor" which brings us right back to the child solicitation statute, saying somebody has to knowingly get on the internet to victimize a minor (a required element). Like I've said before everything comes together perfectly and says the same exact thing!
Can someone who unfortunately had a family member/friend convicted and you were in the courtroom, can you please comment on what your loved one's defense was, the state's defense, the court/state's interpretation of statutes etc...PLEASE, I'm very curious exactly how these cases are playing out in court.
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aladdinAugust 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM
I don't have a whole lot of details on how these actually play out in court but I can point you to a great place for info on how the prosecution thinks. It's put together by a Florida Assistant State Attorney to help other Florida Assistant State Attorneys prosecute sex crimes. It's Locate the Law
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Brian RAugust 15, 2013 at 4:20 PM
Justice Meyers, in this country, when you are grown up, you learn you are guilty before you are innocent.
You are in front of 6 civilians who think you are the devil lying to save your skin like every other criminal. They just don't believe you, and they like the stings. It makes them feel safer. Thats why juries, dont battle these charges. They dont see the defendants as victims of bad police work. They see a criminal.
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aladdinAugust 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM
Our favorite Assistant United States Attorney and Project Safe Childhood coordinator Frank Williams says the top place for child predators is multi-player gaming sites. So why are the cops haunting adult sites?
SOME MORE QUOTES FROM AUSA FRANK WILLIAMS
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 15, 2013 at 8:32 PM
Ok, EVERYONE needs to remember that DESPITE the numerous ICAC guideline violations ALL of these cases ARE ENTRAPMENT. Furthermore, THE LETTER OF THE LAW proves the innocence of the "suspects" as has been stated here numerous times. While it is good to have the blatant violations of the standards, the totality of the circumstances prove inducement/encouragement/enticement (however you would like to state it).
The main point in these cases (something that THEY ALL have in common) is DUE PROCESS. That is the only thing that makes any sense concerning an undercover sting. EVERYTHING has to start the right way or EVERYTHING that follows the due process violation becomes fruit of the poisonous tree. While law enforcement claim to be performing "pro-active" operations, they are not even doing that BY THEIR OWN DEFINITION. The definition of a "pro-active" investigation is to find people on the internet INTENTIONALLY looking for children to solicit for sex and THEY CANNOT PROVE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES that the men arrested were doing just that. (The violation of the guidelines back up this claim.) It is one thing to find someone on a general website with the FORETHOUGHT of looking for a minor to groom (a 23 year old "man" by the name of Jordan Wagner comes to mind who posed as a minor on Facebook to BLACKMAIL teens and TRICK THEM into sending nude photos) and COMPLETELY ANOTHER MATTER to pose as a minor who is posing as an adult to access adult websites and solicit RANDOM MEN FOR SEX WHO ARE ALREADY LOOKING FOR SEX. THE US SUPREME COURT STATES THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A NON-CRIMINAL MOTIVE DOES CONSTITUTE INDUCEMENT ESPECIALLY CONCERNING SEX. When sex is used as inducement then NOBODY can determine if such inducement uncovered an existing propensity or created a new one.
Lets consider an easy scenario that has happened numerous times. A drug dealer is driving down the street, stops at a stop sign, proceeds through the intersection, and gets pulled over for running the stop sign. Well, fortunately for the drug dealer there was a witness that he found that knew he DID NOT run the stop sign. However, unfortunately for the drug dealer, he WRONGFULLY agreed to let the cop search his car and he/she finds A LOT of drugs. Consequently he gets arrested for possession of mass quantities of drugs instead of just a bogus fine for running the stop sign and a lengthy court battle ensues. IN ANY EVENT running a stop sign is NOT probable cause to search for drugs PARTICULARLY WHEN THE COPS DO NOT EVEN SUSPECT THEY WILL FIND THEM AND ONLY SEARCHED THE CAR BECAUSE THE MAN WAS BLACK OR BECAUSE OF THE CAR HE WAS DRIVING. Therefore, since the drug dealer could prove he did not run the stop sign (a good but not necessary bonus) the drug evidence is suppressed and he AVOIDS A FELONY CONVICTION AND A 7 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF DUE PROCESS.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 15, 2013 at 8:32 PM
Now, lets compare this scenario to the internet stings in question. EVERYONE on the adult website is looking at porn, talking about sex, and maybe even looking for a POTENTIAL booty call. Who is wise enough to know who is looking for sex with a minor if EVERYONE in there is supposed to be an adult? NOBODY! I.e. What told the cop to search the car on a completely unrelated event/scenario? NOTHING, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE MEN THAT RESPOND TO THE AD OR PROFILE DO NOT EVEN EXPECT A MINOR LOOKING FOR SEX. Ah yes, but IT'S NOT UNRELATED. There is an implied or expressed interest in sex and the undercover infringes on your constitutional right to free speech BY SIMPLY STATING that they are a minor BUT THERE IS NOTHING THERE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE IT (JUST BS WORDS OVER THE INTERNET AND A BS "PICTURE" THAT COULD HAVE BEEN POSTED BY ANYONE). The whole time this "minor" is pretending to be interested in sex with you JUST TO SEE WHAT YOU WOULD SAY. In the biggest fantasy world ever created, the undercover is trying to use what you say as evidence against you in the event they can further encourage you to follow through with something THAT WAS HIS/HER IDEA. I.e. They have no right to "search the car" under these circumstances. LAW ENFORCEMENT MUST HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE TO SEARCH. THEY CANNOT CREATE THAT PROBABLE CAUSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO AND ASK TO SEARCH ANYWAY. I.e. They must have a REASONABLE SUSPICION that there are drugs in the car to legally search the vehicle REGARDLESS IF YOU SAY THEY CAN OR NOT. THEY CERTAINLY CANNOT SEARCH RANDOM PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK, MALE, DRIVING A NICE CAR, OR TALKING ABOUT (OR LOOKING FOR SEX) ON THE INTERNET. Like someone stated on here already, we have the right to use the internet to look for sex and the government CANNOT use that right against us by implanting "criminal thoughts" in our mind and creating a criminal disposition by posing as a criminal. Finally, NOBODY is running any stops signs in the first place!!!
TO ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT: Wouldn't it be more fun to play video games all week to search for REAL PREDATORS than to SET UP INNOCENT MEN AND RUIN THEIR LIVES by using their immoral activities against them?
I KNOW THERE ARE COPS READING THIS!!! We challenge you to get in on the discussion (completely anonymous of course) and write about why you do what you do and if you agree with what you do or do you do it simply because you are told to.
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Talkn StangAugust 15, 2013 at 9:44 PM
according to Williams, predators are lurking in "multiple player gaming sites", yet i have not heard of any stings being performed in such a fashion. Law enforcement is not going to chime in on here because they know what they have done is wrong and there is no sweeping this under the rug when it is exposed. We have ensured that that will not happen.....
regarding public defenders, guys, if you have issues with your PD's and are in not agreement, call their supervisor and complain. I have had great experiences with PD's and i have been so greatful for their help, but i also know that there are those out there who could care less, e.g. Blair Boyd a former Tallahassee PD who is no longer there. The way i look at it is that you get out of your PD what you put into it, but if they are not willing to listen, then this is a problem and you need to take steps to correct it ASAP also, if you have had a good experience with your PD, as i did, call their supervisor as well and let them know. I did just that....a little bit goes a long way with those guys, trust me!
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4evermomAugust 16, 2013 at 3:55 AM
So thankful for all that are researching and posting and encouraging! I will NEVER give up hope that there will be something good to come for all victims of these illegal stings. Keep fighting...
- scaredmommaAugust 16, 2013 at 5:17 AM
i can tell you here in tallahassee,if you get judge hankinson,you are already guilty.he denied our entrapement motion,he let the prosecutor add a 3rd charge,the day of trial,it was same as 1rst charge,they made sure my son got max sentance,also judge allowed prosecutor to let three -3second clips in,that our lawyer showed her the real video,,prsecutor got pissed because it showed an adult.wouldnt allow it in,but made sure the jury heard it MIGHT be child porn-it was not the case,it was adult.allowed jury to see the 3 -3second clips,we grainy couldnt see if kid or adult.lawyer went for no predispotion,but after the clips were introduced it fried my sons fate.the jury made up its mind before the trial started,they were there all day,but mostly sent out of court room for side bar crap.finally at 3pm the got to hear it all,got sent out to deliberate at 8pm,by 8:52pm they were back with guilty.so yeah we know our son got screwed,he he originally would have gotten 36months,but with 3rd charge added at the last minute he got 63months.-he was sent to panama city,its 2hours away,they do not keep them close to family,they also had a pre sentancing investigation,the guy who did that spent 10minutes with our son,and spoke to use for 10minutes,his report said my son should not have contact with him own children,he is heart broke,and now we have to try and explain to a 5yr,old autistic child why her dad dont see her any more,let alone the 2yr,old will never remember his dad,the legal system here does not care about these men or the other family members,its all about the money,no wonder some commit suicide over this hell.it ruins more than they know.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 16, 2013 at 10:38 AM
Im really sorry for your family. When i read stories like this it makes me despite this legal system that they say is the best in the world .. Land of the free??? Is that a joke? Anyway i hope your son can find peace and something happens soon that will revoke his sentence.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 16, 2013 at 10:31 AM
Dueprocess i like the way you put it. I think they all know what they do and they have to fed their families and that is why the need more grant from the goverment and more tax dollars. The economy the way it is they are not getting anough grant money or tax dollars and they are getting lay off or hours cut or salaries not raised. So basically they will do whatever is easier to get they money they need by conducting this stings. I know they all know that but they just dont care. I wish any officer that really cared for this and didnt aggred to participate in this will come forward and tell the true. Im sure there are good officers who really serve and protect.
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Justice MyersAugust 16, 2013 at 11:23 AM
VERY IMPORTANT
Jacobson vs U.S.- "when initiating sting operations, must not overstep the line that separates a trap for the unwary criminal and create a sting operation which sets a trap for the unwary innocent".
I think the simple question that needs to be asked, after hearing this case law is, "was there probable cause to target the defendant, was he engaged in illegal conduct, were there tips etc.
Also from Jacobson, in his decision Justice White cited "United States Attorney General's Guidelines on FBI Undercover Operations" which state: ...an inducement to commit a crime should not be offered unless:
(a) There is a reasonable indication, based on information developed through informants or other means, that the subject is engaging, has engaged, or is likely to engage in illegal activity of a similar type, or...
(b) The opportunity for illegal activity has been structured so that there is reason for believing that the persons drawn to the opportunity, or brought to it, are predisposed to engage in the contemplated illegal activity. Now we're obviously seen as guilty by the state, but the question that should be asked here is, were there people who didn't show up?
Kinda sounds like their procedures a bit doesn't it...Do you catch where it says "an inducement should not be offered unless"...If you don't follow those guidelines (targeting predisposed people) ANYTHING that's done from then on is inducement. I long for the day when the courts and everybody else realizes this.
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Justice MyersAugust 16, 2013 at 11:58 AM
OK THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. I just realized you didn't have this case law posted and in my opinion it's definitely one of the best to help us. It's from Jacobson and states: "The Government may not play on the weaknesses of an innocent party and beguile him into committing crimes which he otherwise would not have attempted."
This is EXACTLY what the police are doing, playing on our weaknesses (sex, proven in the fact of the environment of the stings, and in some cases the conversation) and using that to trick people into committing crimes they wouldn't have attempted (again proven from the fact of the environment).
Also even though it's not binding make sure you get your attorney to get the court/jurors to atleast SEE/HEAR the Aguirre case from California, who has outlawed these stings, which sums up these operations perfectly, I think that could change minds aswell.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 16, 2013 at 8:09 PM
I do not mean to disappoint you but Jacobson is the WORST case to use in such scenarios as these. Not because of the good legal arguments that can be cited from time to time, but because of the aspect of the case and how UNREALISTIC the facts are compared to internet stings.
Jacobson has actually been used in sting cases before but since the Jacobson sting lasted for about 2.5 years the court refused to believe that someone could be entrapped in a matter of weeks (much less a couple of days or hours as with these stings). Furthermore, the undercover officers in Jacobson targeted him because he ordered child pornography when it was legal and tried to get him to buy it after it was made illegal but not before trying to "befriend him". In these illegal stings the scenario is simply, "hey I'm a minor, come have sex with me" and using the US postal service (much longer than the internet) extended the inducement process quite a bit. Fortunately, NOBODY is being targeted for being suspected child predators but the time frame in Jacobson is what gave law enforcement the idea that what they do in these stings is legal.
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personAugust 17, 2013 at 9:57 PM
that's why they are soliciting on "sex with no strings attached" (casual sex); no need to build a relationship with the victims, if they are responding on topic, they're probably going to "charge in" the conversation with interest of a casual encounter, therefore looking predisposed and possibly need no-minimum inducement. the comparison needs to be put in perspective before the court; the type relationship or quality sought here is casual non-committal or one-time sex, not a relationship. the police have this aspect of the design well thought out. they know courts will not (readily) understand why these men look so "ready". that's my opinion
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Justice MyersAugust 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Exactly, they have these stings so perfectly tailored to not look like anything near entrapment (in the books at least). That's why like u said a couple days ago, it's very important to prove they are intentionally wronging people, then once that is proved the question would be why. Obviously for grant money.
I believe the key to these cases is beating the state at their own game. They WILL try to make you look like the devil himself, you HAVE to make them look 10x worse. Because in court that is all they go on, not law, but how big of a monster you are. That's why they push for trial so bad, because jurors don't know the LAW, and they have no reason convicting someone based on it.
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Brian RAugust 16, 2013 at 3:29 PM
http://www.inquisitr.com/880829/florida-sex-offender-village-called-miracle-village-set-up-by-churches-video/
Miracle Village if you cant find a place to live in S. Florida the strictest area for sex offenders.
Miracle Village might be for you. see the link.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 17, 2013 at 8:10 AM
It seems as though everyone is neglecting the case law links page. There is a very powerful case in there that I have described below. The description of this case relating to the illegal internet stings is also related to due process.
Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U.S. 844 (1997)
The meaning of the quotations on the case law links page for the case above is that the undercover officers in these internet stings know what kind of material they are going to view when they access the adult websites. Since these officers are posing as minors then this fact alone portrays to the average person that this "minor" is looking at the same adult content. Because of these actions, the undercover officers are not only posing as minors but also as criminals thereby implanting the criminal disposition. The purpose of this is to use the adult content to their advantage to encourage speech related to that content and, in turn, "make it illegal" simply by stating they are a minor.
The important point about the statement "this fact alone portrays to the average person that this 'minor' is looking at the same adult content" is to say that the reasoning in Cashatt is on point. It is not illegal to talk about sex with a minor if this "minor" is apparently searching to elicit this kind of communication from a random person on a website where sexual communication takes place. Therefore, it is not a violation of the statute to merely talk about sex with a minor. It is only illegal when the "suspect" intends to use that communication to INTENTIONALLY seduce the minor. However, if the "minor" is already talking about sex and is already soliciting and trying to encourage, then they are the aggressor with the intent to seduce. Therefore, the internet stings in question are a violation of the first amendment because they are using communication "amongst your peers" on the adult website to get you to continue to talk about sex by pretending to be interested in the subject and "make it illegal" by arbitrarily stating they are a minor. Consequently, the child solicitation statutes are unconstitutional as applied in the stings.
The Supreme Court stated that speech is protected when that speech is not meant to take advantage of someone or deny them of their rights. I.e. If the "minor" is trying to intentionally elicit a sexual response from you then you have the first amendment right to respond. THEREFORE, IT IS ILLEGAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO POSE AS A MINOR INTERESTED IN SEX BECAUSE IT INFRINGES ON YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO RESPOND BECAUSE THEN THEY ENCOURAGE THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME BASED ON THOSE CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RESPONSES.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 17, 2013 at 8:33 AM
Having said this brings up a very good point! The internet stings are also ENTRAPMENT BY ESTOPPEL. By accessing the adult website the law enforcement officer agrees that they are, IN FACT, an adult under the BINDING terms of use agreement for the website. Therefore, legally they CANNOT assert that they are an adult to access the website to then say that they are really a minor! They are ESTOPPED from stating that they are a minor after they have already legally and contractually agreed that they are an adult.
Furthermore, the only way to be safe from not incriminating yourself in said internet sting would be to not respond at all forcing you to renounce your freedom of speech rights because they are encouraging you to respond!!! I.e. Entrapment by estoppel.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM
Due process in my case in particular when they told me the age i said: i thoght u were older, forget about the wine, never mind. You shouldnt be on adults sites, be carefull out there. There are a lot of crazy guys. Bye.
And hours after that they cane back at me again. How is that called snd what that shows??
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 18, 2013 at 10:06 AM
That is illegally re-initiating contact after they had already found out that you were not predisposed. Therefore, they knew that if they came back at you and illegally pressed you to respond the way they wanted you to then they could convince you to "engage in the commission of a crime" anyway to make another arrest. It is no secret that these are NOT good faith efforts to catch child predators but a means to make as many arrests as possible because of the financial incentive to create crime.
You have a very good inducement argument if they came back at you hours later to elicit the kind of sexual response they were looking for to arrest you for it. This is most certainly and clearly a violation of due process (and freedom of speech) because they knew you were not a criminal right at the beginning so they decided to beg you to "make you one".
However, even though you have a good inducement argument, that does nothing for the purpose of this cause because subjective entrapment focuses on the SUBJECT (the particular case at hand) and not the stings as a whole. We think it is better to use objective entrapment to bring in the financial incentive which gave them a reason to come back at a random target that did not fit the profile they were looking for (because they were not really looking for a child predator) just to create a crime for the sole purpose of arresting you, the unsuspecting, un-predisposed, innocent person. Objective entrapment is also easier to prove because it is available to the "predisposed person" as well as the un-predisposed person. The two prong test in Cruz is a good guide even though it does not apply any more since the Munoz court decided the legislators did away with the objective entrapment test in Cruz.
Essentially, you told the cop you did not have any drugs but he searched your car anyway and planted the drugs.
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Justice MyersAugust 18, 2013 at 10:45 AM
I thought most courts don't believe in egregious police in these cases, I heard objective entrapment is rarely granted...
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Justice MyersAugust 18, 2013 at 11:16 AM
@DUEPROCESS- A couple weeks ago I was reading SOMETHING from the Constitution but I remember reading something along the lines of "government personnel when in a legal binding contract must follow..." It was something to that effect, pissed I can't remember or find it again. But when I read that I wondered what they meant by legal contract...Are the websites the stings are conducted on contain LEGAL contracts? If so we need to try and find that piece of information because they definitely don't give a damn about those sites Terms and Conditions as well as their own.
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aladdinAugust 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM
Terms of Service:
As a theory of prosecution the federal government has used Terms of Service violations to prosecute people for "unauthorized access of a computer" under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act but the law is far from settled on this issue. For a more detailed explanation and links to specific cases see:
Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
Objective Entrapment:
Currently Florida's Objective Entrapment defense is an Egregious Police Conduct defense and virtually no court recognizes the defense in these cases even with the case law indicating law enforcement can't offer sex as an inducement. The main reason why is because sex is what is being investigated.
In a drug sting law enforcement offering sex as an inducement to purchase illegal narcotics is not allowed. In this scenario the narcotics are the "contraband" and the law is well settled that law enforcement can offer all the "contraband" it wants during such an investigation. Sex on the other hand, is an inducement outside and independent of the activity being investigated and is seen as an improper offer to get someone to commit a crime.
In these sting operations law enforcement is offering sex and it's the sex that is the illegal "contraband". As far as the courts are concerned, law enforcement is free to offer all the "contraband" it wants to during such an investigation. Law enforcement would have to offer you an inducement outside and independent of sex, like say a kilo of cocaine, in addition to sex before the offer would be seen as improper.
No matter what, you will need a due process violation outside and independent of an offer of sex in these cases to invoke the objective entrapment defense. A real world example of this would be when the Broward County Sheriff's Office manufactured crack to sell on the street and arrest people for purchasing it. The court had no problem with the selling of contraband. What they had a problem with is there was no statutory authority that allowed the BCSO to manufacture contraband.
State v. Williams, 623 So. 2d 462 - Fla: Supreme Court 1993
In another case when discussing the objective entrapment defense the court noted that the manufacture of copies of VHS tapes containing child pornography by the LEACH task force (Now the South Florida ICAC task force) was a due process violation.
Farley v. State, 848 So. 2d 393 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 4th Dist. 2003
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 18, 2013 at 5:48 PM
OBJECTIVE ENTRAPMENT PEOPLE!!! Please do not be discouraged!!! Just because it has not worked with a judge does not mean that it has not worked. The defense of objective entrapment has been used successfully at trial about 3 times I think. If 6 emotionally charged people ready to convict can be convinced then a judge most certainly can. The objective entrapment defense ALMOST worked pretrial but the state dropped the case because they did not want a ruling on the issue knowing what it would do should they lose (which they probably would have). Furthermore, we have the Aguirre case setting the stage work for us. The only reason why it has not worked here yet is because for some reason the courts do not think the police conduct is egregious enough. However, we have the violation of the guidelines proving due process violations, we have the violation of federal law, and we have the statistics that prove the people arrested are not criminals. The case of Bist did not work because the court stated that Perverted Justice was not for profit. However, they are no longer allowed to do stings because they were making a profit and we know the state is making a profit. Had this been discovered earlier then Bist would have won.
Objective entrapment gets rid of the prosecutor trying to argue BS text that getting a pizza or riding in a car really means the defendant wants to have sex. It gets rid of the prosecutor trying to argue that your speech was not protected and trying to read your mind saying what you thought when they don't know. It gets rid of the inducement argument completely to where they cannot argue the stupidity that posing as a minor interested in sex does not create the crime but merely provides the opportunity.
Speaking of creating the crime, the element that creates the crime is the minor interested in sex. Therefore, the "contraband" is not the sex. The contraband is sex with the minor. According to Cashatt, talking about sex with a minor is not illegal as long as the person does not want to seduce the child. Consequently, if the minor wants to seduce you (like Frank Williams stated) then you have not violated the statute and the "minor's" conduct is certainly egregious. It is not illegal to talk to a minor. It is not illegal to have sex or look for it on the internet. Therefore, when you have the criminal element (the thing that makes the activity "illegal") looking for, pushing for, encouraging, and offering the illegal sex freely, then that is egregious government conduct, virtue testing, implanting, and using sex as bait.
The objective entrapment defense is golden because these are not good faith efforts to catch child predators, just make them for profit. With this defense, it can be argued that immoral acts are not illegal and virtue testing is a due process violation. ENTRAPMENT IN THESE CASES SHOULD NOT BE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS because they ALL ARE ILLEGAL. The case by case basis is just a lie that law enforcement tell the public because they know that if their tactics are attacked, then they are done. EVERYONE agrees that we need to make them look 10 times worse than the guys arrested do and the objective entrapment defense is the only way to do that.
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Justice MyersAugust 18, 2013 at 5:59 PM
I'm using Farley (random targeting) along with testing the will of a law abiding citizen, in my particular case the undercover officer's profile stated they were looking for sex and oral (which was completely optional) so I can prove the police intentionally used sex to induce me, which in turn violates their procedures, as well as violating my freedom of speech. BUT even with these undisputed facts I know it will not be an easy fight at all, so no matter how good of a case you think you have never ever become to comfortable. Because we've all seen how corrupt, malicious, and dumb our government/and jurors can be.
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Talkn StangAugust 17, 2013 at 2:34 PM
just when you think you have heard about every damn scenario, along comes one that just blew my mind. This kind of "ROGUE LAW ENFORCEMENT" must be stopped and according to the Sen. Judiciary Committee, who returned my phone call, protecting the children "trumps" ones right to due process. We are doomed as a nation when we have a governing body in DC implying this! Luckily we have options, and although it is slow-going, we still have come a long way! If anybody has any contacts within the FBI, CIA, the DoJ or any government agency, or branch of federal government, please email me at talknstang@yahoo.com
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Justice MyersAugust 18, 2013 at 6:09 PM
It would help a little, if you told us this new scenario that "blew your mind".
Also, are you guys gonna post the last two old comments pages?
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Talkn StangAugust 19, 2013 at 7:28 PM
There are "old comments" tabs to the top right of the pages. As far as the scenario i was recently informed of, it involves an adult phone app called "AirG" that Florida law enforcement has invaded as well. I cannot get into any more details except it has to do with guys using this this site being out of state and Florida LEO's threatening to have them extradited back to Florida.
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Talkn StangAugust 18, 2013 at 12:32 PM
Havanawebsolutions, if what you stated above it correct, they are in direct violation of their own ICAC standards and your attorney needs to be aware of this. You already have my email, but feel free to email me again. Your attorney needs to slap these Op standards on the desk of the prosecutor with a note on it tell em to "kiss your ass"
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM
Talksnatand yes it was exactly like that. My lawyer already submitted a motion to dismiss base on entrapment. I dont know how long that takes to get a decision. Does the operational standarts says something about them insisten even though you say im not interested? Please let me know what especifically say. Thankss
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Talkn StangAugust 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM
Once your motion is filed with the court, a separate hearing is scheduled on that motion with just the defense, prosecutor, and the judge. Talk to your attorney about those Op Standards. He/She will know what to do with them.
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personAugust 18, 2013 at 8:06 PM
am i missing something (updated law or controlling decision?) on what constitutes as an overt act on attempt in some opinions i found?:
duke v state
morehead v state (controlling decision in duke)
coker v state
in my opinion, even the described scenarios in these opinions constitute alot closer to an "overt act" than ours, as our "overt act" was meeting with the adult decoy.
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personAugust 18, 2013 at 9:45 PM
perhaps the most interesting one: ticknor v state is disturbing but interesting due to what appears to be the court's opinion on what constitutes an attempt:
"The victim testified that she closed her knees when Ticknor, standing over her in his underwear, moved toward her and stated, "Isn't this what you want... ." The victim further testified that she did not see Ticknor put any clothes on or take any off during this period of time. We conclude that the victim's testimony was insufficient to establish the elements of attempted sexual battery."
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aladdinAugust 19, 2013 at 10:39 AM
Just my quick thoughts, it looks like Ticknor had more to do with "Unsworn, uncorroborated statements that are inconsistent with the victim's trial testimony" than it did the actual elements of criminal attempt.
The controlling case for criminal attempt in stings is
Bist v. State, 35 So. 3d 936 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2010
The key things seem to be proximity to the alleged victim and the possession of preparatory items like condoms and lubricant.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 19, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Any news??
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Talkn StangAugust 19, 2013 at 7:22 PM
Those ICAC Op Standards can be found here for downloading, etc. as well as more sting related info
http://scriptogr.am/stoptheinsanity
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scaredmommaAugust 20, 2013 at 8:11 AM
I'M goin to add my experience in a tally courtroom to this,my son at first was threatened by his pd(wouldnt see his kids again)if he did not take the plea,ok he did,but at the plea hearing,the judge did not say what the pd said would happen,it was so different,i right away told my son withdraw that plea,after the pd(blair boyd)refused to file the withdrawl of plea i got a power of attorney from my son and did it,i was not aware ofvthe fact if you have a pd or lawyer you cannot file anything yourself.well it was denied due to that fact.finally it came down to boyd quitting and the plea was withdrawl,we got our trial,if that is what that was called,one the monday before my sons thurday trial the new lawyer we hired gave the prosecutor her case,there was a small memo in the file about a disc of suspected cp.our attorney asked the prosecutor about it 3days prior to trial,was told nope not gonna go there,tuesday 2days before trial,late afternoon our lawyer was contacted by prosecutor to come look at small suspected cp,she did,and called us,we went to her office she showed it to use,my son knew where he found it,it was on xhamster site,he told her exactly where to find it and she did,it was taken to court on trial day she showed it to prosecutor and on of the detectives who is also involved with icac crap.they said the 3-3second clips look like cp(child porn)but when they saw the actual video they were pissed because it clearly showed an aduly asian gal,not a blurred whatever you wanna call it crap,it was not allowed in at all.only the 4of them saw it,was told not letting it in,but thestate wasallowed to let those 3grain little clips in as suspected cp.then prosecutor was allowed to add a third charge ,same as first one on trial day,so my kid got 3 charges instead of 2 plus the suspected cp,we the lawyer was trying for no prior pre disposition and with that crap about cp ,well lets just say he was guilty before it started.also the motion for entrapement was denied,as was every other motion we filed,also states prosecutor ever said she should of be santcioned due to lack of turning over discovery .not a damn thing was done about it.thejury was out to deliberate for a lousy 52minutes,then my kid got 63 months prison,and 1yr probation and lifetime sex offender registry,just because he answered an adult ad on craig's list,the hot latina for one niter no strings attached,w4m.also it is floridas way of doing things by putting every one at least 100miles away from their families.the department of corrections for florida does this as a sort of punishment,do not think for 1minute that your accused family member will be treated differently,i know that at least 10 from tallyop sting are that far away from family,dont think they will help you at all,theey will not,you arent anything but a member of a perverts family.that is how they see us.and they ever wanted to keep my sons kids from visiting him,but since there was no victim i dont think they can,we will see,ill let ya know after aug.31rst,we get to see my son for the first time since he left,its 2hours away,we are financially ruined over this,and have his wife and kids we are supporting now,so we have very little extra cash to see our son now.let alone the stress of having all these mouths to feed and deal with little kids in a small place.and all the stress we are dealing with,its almost too much to handle.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 20, 2013 at 10:25 AM
If your in the 1st DCA. File an appeal and get him out on bond. the appeals court seems to be questioning the encouragement/indictment angle more thouroghly. maybe once te court slaps down Hank a few times he will get the message. you need To find a better lawyer. down here in Lee county. no one got more then 24 months jail time.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 21, 2013 at 11:34 AM
We need to get our justice!!
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Justice MyersAugust 21, 2013 at 11:58 AM
We really need to find case law to negate that entrapment is an affirmative defense, they're using that in my case and many others. But objective entrapment it doesn't matter, because not an ounce of focus is on you and your actions strictly on law enforcement, correct?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 21, 2013 at 6:14 PM
Well not entirely correct. You still have to prove that you were not engaged in criminal activity in need of detection. As far as affirmative defense, is it really that bad to admit that you were "tricked" (for lack of a better word) and that you were the unwary innocent that was talked into something by a horny "teenager" because you were already horny? Or the alternative, that yes you did have the conversation with this "minor" but not for the reasons that they are implying. You are not a child predator but this "child" was the predator because they were looking to create crime just to arrest you. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT MORALITY!!! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS LEGAL AND WHAT IS NOT!!! The only illegal thing that happened here was entrapment.
Remember that sex is not the illegal act being created. The sexual conversation is not the illegal act being created. Conversing with the "child" is not the illegal act being created. THE ILLEGAL ACT BEING CREATED IS SEX WITH THE "CHILD" (or rather the intentions) BUT IF THE "CHILD" IS SEDUCING YOU THEN YOU WERE ENTRAPPED. THEREFORE, LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE STILL USING SEX TO GET YOU TO "COMMIT A CRIME"!!! THERE HAVE BEEN CASES WON BECAUSE THE DEFENDANT ARGUED THAT THE SEXUAL CONVERSATION AS WELL AS THE "OVERT ACT" ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE OF CONSENT WHICH IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE CHILD SOLICITATION STATUTES.
Finally, remember that IT DOES MATTER THAT THE "CHILD" WAS A COP AND THE STATUTES ARE MISLEADING BY STATING THAT IT DOESN'T!!! The only time it does not matter if the "child" is an undercover officer IS WHEN YOU ARE A REAL PREDATOR, EXPECTING TO FIND A REAL CHILD, AND EXPECTING TO REALLY SEDUCE THAT CHILD!!! Also, yes it IS a freedom of speech violation.
So yes objective entrapment is the way to go and as we have stated before, it has worked before both for the juries and the prosecutor's office.
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 22, 2013 at 11:49 AM
So subjective entrapment wont work? That is what my attorney sent the motion to dismiss based on.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 22, 2013 at 12:12 PM
Well it depends on the case. If it is clear that you were induced then you are fine just like the two Manatee County cases but those guys were really innocent and not entrapped into anything. However, if it is not clear then be prepared for a fruitless battle where the prosecution and judge pretends to be able to read your mind based on the "conversation". I say again that ALL of these cases fall under objective entrapment but they also ALL fall under subjective entrapment but that is harder to prove because it's case specific.
Your attorney can always amend it to include both objective and subjective and make the court actually do their job by analyzing both instead of writing some bs opinion that says that you were not induced simply because you continued the conversation. That's why it's important to use objective entrapment to argue the first amendment violations, the violations of the procedures that are codified in the federal codes, and the financial incentive apparent in those procedures. WE ALSO NEED THE FEDERAL TRAINING MANUAL SUBPOENAED WHICH SPECIFICALLY STATES THEY CANNOT USE ADULT WEBSITES.
The state will try to argue that the federal procedures are protected by the privacy act but that is only true IF THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURES. We KNOW they are violating the procedures and therefore federal law so we need those procedures. Remember, THESE ARE FEDERAL OPERATIONS PERFORMED BY STATE AGENCIES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF FEDERAL GRANT MONEY. The statistics on child solicitation DO NOT SUPPORT THESE STINGS PROVING THE CREATION OF CRIME.
Everything that is "powerful" and persuasive enough to win a case is INHERENT IN OBJECTIVE ENTRAPMENT!!! All of the facts proving entrapment cannot be argued with just the subjective approach. IN FACT, a member of the Florida Bar wrote that the entrapment defense needs to be reworked to possibly include BOTH subjective and objective entrapment that is "evolved" enough just like technology because these cases are CLEARLY "some form of entrapment" and that being the case then they NEED to be ruled that way. If it takes rewriting entrapment laws then that is what it takes because it's obviously the creation of crime which is a due process violation that CANNOT be argued subjectively.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 22, 2013 at 12:15 PM
Remember, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND WE ARE NOT ATTORNEYS but we have those two dismissals and other victories proving this information DOES WORK.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 22, 2013 at 12:22 PM
OH and also, objective entrapment is to be ruled by a judge and to go to trial for a case like this IS ALSO A DUE PROCESS VIOLATION because it is entrapment as a matter of law. See Munoz. Therefore, the jury could still convict you because entrapment as a matter of law has nothing to do with the "facts" or "evidence" that they see. They could convict you anyway just because they THINK that you should be convicted for having "bad thoughts" and being able to be talked into something like this.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 22, 2013 at 3:56 PM
The Supreme Court ruled in Matthews that the defense can argue two equally valid but opposing defenses. you don't have to use subjective entrmoment as n affirmative defense. but that the police entrapped you into committing the crime. you don't have to admit your guilt. federal law superseded state law.
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Talkn StangAugust 23, 2013 at 9:31 PM
you are correct. In Florida, you do not have to admit guilt when raising an entrapment defense.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 22, 2013 at 10:09 PM
U.S. Supreme Court
Mathews v. United States, 485 U.S. 58 (1988)
Mathews v. United States
No. 86-6109
Argued December 2, 1987
Decided February 24, 1988
485 U.S. 58
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Talkn StangAugust 23, 2013 at 8:19 PM
still no decision on the 1d123407 case with the 1stDCA after nearly 6 weeks of deliberation. If they are properly reviewing all the facts, motions, briefs, and the oral arguments, it should be a HUGE victory against these stings and will give us more leverage for sure in combating these illegal operations. I would also expect the 5thDCA to affirm the lower court decisions in the Jothilingam and Maniscalco cases. This is why you file those entrapment motions regardless of whether your attorney/PD thinks it will be denied or not. I have heard on several occasions that entrapment motions were not filed because none have been granted in that particular circuit before and that is total HOGWASH. It is up to you to communicate your intentions to your attorney, but be tactful and try not to piss any one off. Remember, they work for you and many put up a lot of money when retaining counsel. Spend your money well and make sure you understand what is going on in your case every step of the way. We are making progress within the court system
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Talkn StangAugust 23, 2013 at 11:12 PM
something i want to touch on regarding any civil lawsuit claim you might think you have in the future......as well as working with media, i am starting to dig for info on any future claims one might have that would stem from an unlawful arrest. But if you are thinking this in the back of your mind, you need to STOP! This is no "get rich quick" scheme whatsoever. The most important thing you need to focus on is winning your criminal case. In time, i will put out more info as i become a bit more educated on this topic, but for now, nobody is really in any position to even be contemplating a civil case although i am hoping that in time, those whose lives have been destroyed because of the wrongful conduct of local, state, and federal authorities for no particular reason will be compensated for the hardships that they have endured. I just have heard from so many people that they are going to sue "this" and "that" FOCUS ON YOUR CASE. Once you win, you just might have a possible claim and that is what we are working on finding out. Enough said, lol
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Justice MyersAugust 24, 2013 at 12:55 AM
DUEPROCESS- I was told that not all case law on here is binding some is persuasive (not saying you claimed it was). But, is any of the virtue testing/random targeting case law on here binding? If so we need to use that because it WILL win. If not trial court, appeals because if something is binding they HAVE to use it whether they like it or not. And the reason I'm asking about random targeting specifically is because I know the courts like to go back and distinguish cases to see if that case law is "applicable" but random targeting is just like it sounds and doesn't need to be looked at or misinterpreted
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 24, 2013 at 3:45 AM
@Justice Myers... Of course I was aware that not all case law on the case law links page is binding. I.e. The Aguirre case is most certainly not binding but it directly applies to the stings here, that is the result we are striving for, and persuasive precedent IS NECESSARY to reach our goals.
The Lusby case (virtue testing/random targeting) IS BINDING!!! The persuasive precedent can be used WITH Lusby and other binding cases to ultimately get to the same conclusion in Aguirre.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 24, 2013 at 2:28 PM
OBJECTIVE ENTRAPMENT cases just to name a few!!!
Curry v. State, 876 So.2d 29 (Fla. 4th DCA 2004)
In the case at bar, the state argues that entrapment was not established because there was no evidence of inducement. The state further contends that the three step test utilized in a subjective entrapment analysis is applicable. However, as discussed above, the two theories of entrapment are distinct. The state's analysis is misguided and has no bearing on the issue of objective entrapment.
The facts of this case are akin to those in Farley and Finno in that there is no indication Curry was involved with any criminal undertaking PRIOR TO the involvement of law enforcement.
State v. Casper, 417 So.2d 263 (Fla. 1st DCA, 1982)
...entrapment has occurred where "the decoy simply provided the opportunity to commit a crime to ANYONE who succumbed to the lure of the bait."
Beattie v. State, 636 So.2d 744 (Fla. 2nd DCA, 1994)
It is undisputed that law enforcement did not know Beattie for any deviant activity or involvement with child pornography UNTIL HE RESPONDED to the advertisement. Customs did not target individuals when it placed the advertisement in the publication.
Lusby v. State 507 So.2d 611 (1987)
We do not condone general forrays into the population at large by government agents to QUESTION AT RANDOM the citizenry of this country to test their law abiding nature, i.e., virtue testing.
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Justice MyersAugust 24, 2013 at 11:19 PM
I'm still baffled as to why all these convictions then when there is clear binding that states something extremely simple to comprehend...The courts need to realize that it's not what they THINK is a due process violation/egregious conduct, it's what they're BOUND by. So even if trial courts erred, appeals/supreme court should be setting the record straight. But they can't do that if this isn't getting brought up in court (which is what I'm hoping is going on).
I have a question, when appeals/supreme court give an opinion, is the WHOLE opinion binding or just what they ruled on. For instance, I see some opinions will rely on elements for subjective entrapment but ultimately rule on objective, and vice versa. Are any of these cases ruled subjective entrapment? And if so, does that matter when trying to go the objective route?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 25, 2013 at 5:39 AM
There are all these convictions because the egregious conduct goes beyond the actual sting. THE COPS ARE LYING TO THE PUBLIC SO THE MEN ARE GUILTY AS SOON AS THEY ARE ARRESTED!!! The public does not exclude judges, attorneys, and prosecutors who are working with law enforcement (also egregious). The courts are not really bound by anything because of this "little thing" called "discretion" and they abuse it all of the time. Furthermore, some of the judges are actually in on this financial incentive to create crime. Finally, there are just some things in life that are really hard to "turn back from" because people refuse to believe certain things. One of these things is that law enforcement couldn't possibly set someone up for preying on a child. MOST PEOPLE STILL DON'T BELIEVE THAT ADULT WEBSITES ARE BEING USED TO CATCH THESE MEN EVEN WHEN YOU PROVE TO THEM THAT THEY ARE BEING USED. Some things, no matter how much proof you have, are like trying to hammer a nail without a hammer and this is one of those things. LUCKILY, WE HAVE A ROCK that can either be used to hammer the nail or knock some sense into everyone so they go find a hammer.
Speaking of the prosecutors working with law enforcement, it seems to be that something could be done about that because it's a conflict of interest. A prosecutor is suppose to take a case AFTER law enforcement make an arrest. Then, based on the evidence the prosecutor decides to take it. Therefore, if the prosecutors are working with law enforcement deciding what evidence they will take and what they will not take, then it would be easy to fabricate a crime and wrongfully prosecute an innocent person. Remember, the financial incentive lies not with the number of arrests but with the number of convictions.
As far as the subjective/objective entrapment question: the two Manatee County cases were ruled both subjectively. The cases that were dropped before they even made it to a motion to dismiss were raised objectively. As far as the link between the two:
Curry v. State, 876 So.2d 29 (Fla. 4th DCA 2004)
In the case at bar, the state argues that entrapment was not established because there was no evidence of inducement. The state further contends that the three step test utilized in a subjective entrapment analysis is applicable. However, as discussed above, the two theories of entrapment are distinct. The state's analysis is misguided and has no bearing on the issue of objective entrapment.
The facts of this case are akin to those in Farley and Finno in that there is no indication Curry was involved with any criminal undertaking prior to the involvement of law enforcement.
It helps to read all the case law on the case law links page. Also, other people are doing a great job of finding other cases to use as well.
This is not legal advice and we are not attorneys.
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aladdinAugust 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM
State v. Casper is no longer binding, it was supplanted by Cruz v. State, 465 So. 2d 516 - Fla: Supreme Court 1985 and then the Florida legislature legislated a subjective entrapment test with Florida Statute 777.201 which sought to eliminate an objective entrapment defense. The Supreme Court of Florida re-instated an objective entrapment defense in Munoz v. State, 629 So. 2d 90 - Fla: Supreme Court 1993. The Casper decision has not been cited in any fashion since 1986.
If you're going to take the objective route you will need something other than "the cops tempted me with illegal sex" as the courts will not see that alone as egregious. Again, that's like saying "the cops offered to sell me illegal drugs" or claiming a cop posing as a prostitute offering her services is egregious conduct. It simply will not work.
Claims of virtue testing will not help either because law enforcement has not cast its nets into the public at large. The investigations are targeting a very small section of Craigslist which makes it an incredibly tiny portion of the internet and the police only investigate those that answer an ad. As far as the courts are concerned that's "narrowly tailored" to the purpose.
The only hope of making a successful objective entrapment argument lies in establishing that this type of crime is not occurring on Craigslist, you were not engaged in a criminal enterprise in need of being detected by law enforcement and a specific, provable due process violation that has absolutely nothing to do with an offer of illegal sex. This is not something you can just argue, you will have to actually prove it and without all three elements the courts will say the police merely presented you with the opportunity to commit a crime.
Prosecutors - Prosecutors ARE law enforcement. The highest ranking law enforcement officer in the state of Florida? Attorney General Pam Bondi. Highest ranking law enforcement officer in the country? Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder. Prosecutors always have and always will have the power to tell law enforcement what to do.
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personAugust 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM
you're a real drag. where's our buddy stang to brighten up the day with some hopeful news?
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aladdinAugust 25, 2013 at 4:37 PM
I'm not trying to be drag, sorry. I'm just trying to let people know how the courts currently view things so they can better prepare for what the state is going to throw at them.
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personAugust 25, 2013 at 4:51 PM
lol that was meant as a funny. we appreciate all the work you do, and i do know you put alot of time into combating this. florida recognises a "hybrid" entrapment argument; they don't completely ignore objective entrapment, but it's not a liberal as the cruz standard since munoz; they just "abandoned" the cruz standard. farley was objective and subjective. the reason court doesn't recognise ours as objective based on the farley opinion is because police technically did not manufacture all the "instrumentalities" such as craigslist as in farley they literally supplied all the materials to create the presence of the child porn distributor. this is a superficial standard/comparison since they are providing all the illegal elements, and if anything it's outrageous based on the fact they're abusing a legit public adult resource to snatch as many people in as possible, and theyre employing aggressive techniques to induce uninterested men in, so it really does set it as objective and subjective in a lot of cases. craigslist NSA sex is a fragile/sensitive resource and should strictly be prohibited based on that; most men/people on there are hurting for (intimate) social interaction and thats why theyre on there. i personally consider setting these stings in there a violation of due process.
federal court's consideration of entrapment is more narrow, strictly subjective and does not recognise objective entrapment in any capacity, only substantive due process violation, which seems to be extreme: bribery, torture, etc. poehlman is the closest thing to our case, the only issue with poehlman is it was over the course of several months and the court again will be superficial and say its different than ours based on that, which is why the police using "NSA sex" is a low dirty innovative hack of a way since they know the courts will be baffled and wont (readily) understand what NSA (no strings attached) sex is, and the capture rate is high. theyre hooked and they wont stop until what theyre doing is illegal or outlawed.
here's an informative article i've seen cited in at least one opinion (can't recall which).
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aladdinAugust 25, 2013 at 5:26 PM
The federal version of objective entrapment is just called egregious government conduct and is rarely successfully invoked. The guiding case law on it is United States v. Russell, 411 US 423 - Supreme Court 1973 and United States v. Twigg, 588 F. 2d 373 - Court of Appeals, 3rd Circuit 1978. Florida's version is much broader.
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personAugust 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM
which i believe is considered "substantive due process violation", and it requires extreme behaviour by the police; e.g. bribery and torture.
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Justice MyersAugust 25, 2013 at 9:26 PM
Casper can still be used for persuasive right? Or is it like it never happened?
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screwed in lee countyAugust 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM
The court used the term general forays into the public. Law enforcement can't argue craigslist adult section is general public site or that children go on looking for adults to have sex with. when le goes into cupid,manhunt,grindr,bender they are in adult for adult sites. where's the predisposition? The Newman case is a well written one concerning these fishing expeditions. more people nee to fight the charges and.not take bs plea deals.
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Talkn StangAugust 24, 2013 at 1:56 PM
some thoughts i have if you are taking your case to trial. First, if you are raising the issue of entrapment and the jury instruction is given. REREAD the statement: "It also is not entrapment merely because a law enforcement officer, in a good faith attempt to detect crime" slowly back to the jury during an opening statement with emphasis on the phrase GOOD FAITH. If predisposition is not in dispute, your attorney should easily be able to raise the eyebrows of the jury in this manner. As your trial comes to a close, hopefully your case has been presented in such a fashion to show that this was not a "good faith" effort to catch a true predator....it was a poorly set trap to ensnare a normal law abiding citizen in a fabricated plot to create criminals. Also, print out all online media reports which label you as a pedophile, the devil, etc. Tell the jury in an opening statement that your case will show that wrongful statements made in media reports are simply not accurate. This can be easily proven by the chat logs, etc. because nobody is actually soliciting a minor using adult websites as media reports state. This only reinforces the fact that these are not "good faith" efforts . The bottom line is, there are some really easy things your attorney can present right off the bat that could weigh heavily in the minds of jurors. It is all about presentation because we already have all the ammunition needed for a jury to acquit. I am not an attorney, and these are just a few suggestions i have thought of. You should be communicating with your attorney every 2 weeks or so to check on progress. Don't just sit and wait for things to happen. Many have done this with horrible results. Be prepared!
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aladdinAugust 24, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Another thing to add to this is on Craigslist being known as a high crime area for this type of crime. When pressed on this issue all the state can say is "We know it happens." and possibly try to bring in other sting arrests as evidence. This can be blocked prior to trial with a motion in limine because it is hearsay. To date the State does not have any first hand knowledge of actual child predators using Craigslist to find their victims outside of the sting investigations. Their basis for doing these stings is because they were told it happens during ICAC training. Again this is considered hearsay and the State can be prevented from using such statements to prove Craigslist is a high crime area.
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Talkn StangAugust 24, 2013 at 6:53 PM
absofrickinlutely
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personAugust 24, 2013 at 7:53 PM
and prepare for the state to try the judge and talk the hearsay anyway so the jury hears it, and also lie about it under testimony and the court not to do anything effective about it.
it's not a "poorly set" trap; it's intentionally "set" illegal lure, designed to confuse unwitting innocents to even come in contact with them, and when they do contact it's conducted with illegal confusing methods so they lure and manipulate those unwitting innocents to do what they prescribe so they rack the numbers up.
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personAugust 24, 2013 at 8:01 PM
here's a concept to incorporate in a trial argument, to attempt to appeal and garner sympathy from the jury, gotta give a lil history on the common purpose and typical usage of craigslist "sex with no strings attached" (aka casual encounters), otherwise they hear only the police's lies: these men are seeking casual sex with adults for various reasons, some are: some of these men are dealing with fallout of/from a relationship or marriage--looking to get their mind off it/them, or are here temporarily (e.g. military or visiting) and lonesome, or are too busy working/schooling and are lonesome so they're just reaching out for some (intimate) human interaction, or some are in an open relationship. most are not likely interested in minors, probably never even thought about it or considered it, and probably didn't seriously entertain the idea or have any intention to carry it out. travelling there is no overt act; i've met enough women (and ONLY adult women) on there to know regardless what was talked about in the correspondence leading up to the physical meeting doesn't always translate to sexual interaction. you gotta meet someone before you can decide if/what you're willing to do with her. there's just too many unknowns. and perhaps some of these guys are slow, and the "impact"/reality of meeting a minor would be likely to turn them away; thinking one thing is alot different than actually doing it. also, since correspondence is solely with an adult, so the minor is of little to no presence in the pre-meeting correspondence.
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personAugust 24, 2013 at 8:15 PM
the reason police are targeting and exploiting men who use this resource because it's easy for the police to manipulate & confuse these men to look predisposed to whatever scenario/situation the police have prescribed. what the police are doing is sick and cruel, to say the least. these men are having a weak moment, probably not really paying attention, probably waiting to meet before deciding or fully comprehending/deciding what they want to do, and because these men are interested in a "sex with no strings attached" encounter (on craigslist "casual encounters") it's gonna be easy to make these men look "predisposed" to whatever situation the police shepherded them into; they're already actively seeking an intimate/sexual encounter, and all it takes is a twist here and there on the police's part and suddenly a minor somehow is in the situation (albeit in a minimal, remote, disconnected capacity), completely of the police's own accord and only from their illegal, confusing and manipulative tactics
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 25, 2013 at 5:13 AM
Well Craigslist has been used by child predators before but it is certainly not a high crime area. Furthermore, the child predators do not lurk in the adult sextion of Craigslist. The last case that I heard of was the guy was posing as a handyman to gain access to children. A case before that was the guy posed as a babysitter. The point that needs to be brought up is that REAL CHILD PREDATORS WILL NEVER USE SEX TO GET TO YOUR CHILDREN. They will use some other non-criminal motive to get close to the kids. LAW ENFORCEMENT ALSO KNOW THIS. Therefore, THEY ARE USING SEX TO CREATE CRIME THAT DOES NOT EXIST!!! The MODIS OPERANDI of a child predator IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and it CLEARLY SHOWS THEIR CRIMINAL INTENT!!! I.e. The child predator that was recently caught on Facebook was posing as a minor himself to blackmail teens into providing him with child pornography. This type of scenario has happened numerous times and the men NEVER get caught before the men have already had contact with children. Therefore, to say that this kind of operation can be pro-active IS RIDICULOUS.
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aladdinAugust 25, 2013 at 2:33 PM
If you do a Google search:
Children using craigslist to solicit sex
You'll come up with only ONE case like the scenarios used in these stings.
13-year-old Tucson boy used Craigslist to solicit sex
Be sure to make note of what a law enforcement officer had to say about it.
"Very rare we see a minor soliciting sex on the internet." Lt. Chris Olson a 20 year police veteran tells News 4 this case shocks him.
The "handyman" case is US v. Berk, Court of Appeals, 1st Circuit 2011. The handyman placed the ad looking for work and Berk responded to it asking if the father would be willing to rent out his kids instead. Another case similar to this one is where the predator placed an ad selling a Jeep tire cover and then started asking the people looking to buy the tire cover about having their kids model for him.
Man solicits child porn from people who respond to Craigslist ads for different services.
The babysitter cases go both ways as well. In this one, Mesa man, Joshua Vehmeier who propositioned teen on Craigslist arrested, the guy answered an ad placed by a minor offering babysitting services. There are other cases out like this and there are more than a few examples where the child predator placed ads offering babysitting services in order to get access to children like this one - West Pennsboro man used baby sitter ads to solicit sex
The first important thing about all of them is none of them occurred in Florida which means Florida law enforcement does not have first hand knowledge of this type of crime and attempting to say they do in court is inadmissible hearsay prejudicial to the defendant.
The second thing is the babysitting and handyman cases do not substantially fit the facts of a sting investigation and any comments about them should be inadmissible as well because prejudice to the defendant far outweighs any probative value such comments would have.
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Talkn StangAugust 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-08-17/news/os-sex-sting-lockheed-martin-engineer-20130817_1_daytona-beach-police-13-year-old-girl-lockheed-martin
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 25, 2013 at 5:51 AM
They think this "stuff" is "freaking" funny? How come nobody sees the fact that by placing the ad the cops have created the crime? What did the ad say? Where was it placed? Craigslist no doubt. Since when do OUR goods and services get to be used by law enforcement to create crime?
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personAugust 25, 2013 at 3:21 PM
people like to be entertained instead of participating in regulating their government while its gradually removing and restricting freedoms, since that is not stimulating or (immediately) gratifying and requires work
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Justice MyersAugust 25, 2013 at 11:41 PM
I want to ask some questions and share my opinions on some things.
DUEPROCESS I don't know if you understood me, sorry I'll try and explain easier..First off, I want to note, I personally believe subjective and objective entrapment are basically the same thing. In some opinions I've seen, I see the court acknowledge the other entrapment approach (for instance objective) but ultimately rule on the other (subjective) is the objective binding as well? Or doesn't mean anything since they didn't rule objectively?
And what we really should be trying to do is getting someone from high up from the website to do a deposition, possible testify etc. because I can almost guarantee they don't condone their "property" being mistreated in such a way. That's why they spent time developing their terms and conditions. I'm interested if these websites who's rules get violated if they REALLY wanted to could they sue the person who violated? That reminds me look on the website's terms and conditions, mine specifically stated no business, agencies, organizations, etc. may create a profile. I think someone from the website's "voice" would be important extremely important. But I know it's hard and they don't answer but keep trying.
Also lets get this straight. We WILL win this based on objective entrapment. I think the key is flooding the judge with the OVERWHELMING case law to support binding. And lets remember some things people. First, DON'T ignore that entrapment statute, again for people with common sense it states a sting operation(and we know that because it's the only defense a defendant can claim entrapment) is ONLY supposed to be done to gain evidence for the commission of a crime, if doing so you already have probable cause against someone. Also something that many seem to forget (or maybe aren't aware of) due process is pretty vague in the Constitution, but a simple term(s) most legal experts use so people understand more easily is simply FUNDAMENTAL FAIRNESS/DECENCY. It doesn't just have to be a right being violated or whatnot. I bet that's what those courts were thinking about in the case law. Another thing I remember reading somewhere but forgot virtue testing derived under the principle that when police virtue test, EVERYONE IS A POTENTIAL CRIMINAL, which this is America that isn't fair or decent.
Farley v. State: "the defendant had not been involved in an existing criminal undertaking in need of detection by law enforcement, rather the government sought to manufacture crime based on a list of names and addresses of unknown origin" This ties up with the reasonable suspicion as well. But something very important to note, whoever wrote this opinion had enough common sense to realize that when police randomly target ANYTHING from that point on is a creation of crime. I believe that is pretty noticeable.
Also, they'll call this a pro-active investigation but if I didn't know that and I saw their procedures I'd be inclined to believe that, again, they have to have reasonable suspicion. Where it states how cases may be initiated and the prioritization scale.
Also remember it's not what you say but how you say it. I can say two things that mean the same thing, one you may not reason with me the other you are GUARANTEED to reason with me! Make sure your lawyer uses their words cleverly.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 26, 2013 at 5:53 PM
Subjective and objective entrapment are very different. See Curry vs. State. Its easy to comprehend if you think of the basic definitions of subjective and objective.
Subjective - focuses on the individual and the thinking and not the thought. Thinking is different than thought. Thinking is the process of trying to figure something out and thought is something that has already been figured out. I.e. What did the subject/"suspect"/"target" do in the sting and did his thinking prove his thought or criminal predisposition or was his thinking created by law enforcement (also known as inducement).
Objective - focuses on the object of the sting. I.e. What were law enforcement really doing during this "investigation".
The interpretations are clear and the objective defense is how to win because these are not good faith efforts to catch child predators. Everyone knows what they were doing when they were approached by law enforcement but what were they doing and why were they doing it? The only reason why Munoz did not rule on objective entrapment is because they did not even get to the discussion since Munoz was subjectively entrapped. This is unfortunate because the Munoz court probably would have ruled that when law enforcement pose as a minor looking to create a crime then the "target" is objectively entrapped.
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Justice MyersAugust 29, 2013 at 7:49 AM
A better word I should've used was they overlap each other. For instance, under subjective when talks about predisposition, if the target doesn't have the predisposition then it's also objective because of the random targeting. As does EVERYTHING in these cases. Don't forget to let people know that most of the law states the same exact thing just in different ways. That's why you should swarm the judge with literally all the law you have, to show that it's OVERWHELMING.
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Justice MyersAugust 26, 2013 at 12:01 AM
So because it's a "pro-active investigation" binding state law gets to be ignored and squashed?!?! Ok you offered your bullshit "opportunity" but you had to target with suspicion in order to do that! Also important to note like in Beattie we all were ensnared by a widely disseminated ad/profile.
In my case, it's clear WAY before a minor is brought up that sex was already established, is there something I can do specifically about that?
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Justice MyersAugust 26, 2013 at 12:03 AM
*NO suspicion
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scaredmommaAugust 26, 2013 at 12:06 PM
Hi all.i just found out something,i am sure others are finding out now,according to florida statute on the charges my son and alot of the others were charged with,the department of corrections here in florida,our guys cannot have visitation with their own children,we were told in open court by the judge and kathy ray-states prosecutor that he could see his own kids,nobody told us the prison could say no visitation,my son has been in bay c.f since june5th,he has done so well,they gave him10gain days,but when we go see him for the first time-(it takes30days after you send back you visitor form to be approved),he will be devastated,this kind of low blow is going to destroy my son,havent they took enough from him?his kids are his life,his autistic daughter just turned 5-without her dad there,his son just turned 2 again without his dad there,if he cannot see his kids-they will be 9&6,when he gets out,i know the 2year old wont know him,i seriously doubt his little girl will either,his wife&kids will be going back up north to be able to get assistance to have a place to live,and for the wife to get work and a car,no body here will assist them,we have no available funds to help them,we used our assets for the lawyer.this just gets worse all the time,as for getting my son out on appeal,we cannot cough up one red cent for a bond,we are one step from homeless ourselves.this has destroyed not one but two families.and it dont seem like they are done destroying us further.and the worst thing for us is his little girl now crys for her dad ,she wakes up and goes looking all over for him,and then crys herself back to sleep,almost every nite,that is pitiful to witness,we cannot get her to understand why she cannot be with him,i think that florida should be so proud of all the children it has made fatherless over the last 2.5years.since october 14th,2011.we are waiting for my sons conflict free council to get his appeal done,then wait for the denial that im sure will follow.yes i have zero faith in florida legal system anymore.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 26, 2013 at 4:15 PM
If enough people appeal to the District courts theres going to be crazy ass decisions all over the place. which means the Florida supreme court is gonna have to get involved and sort out the mess. maybe by then a democratic governor will replace a few conservative judges and these stings will be struck down. it may take a couple of years but patience is a virtue. why do u think state prosecutors fear the appeals process. if one District court judge(lakin) throws out charges based on entrapment and the 2nd court of appeals uphold it, which I believe they will. that will cause a Tsunami throughout the court system. The Supreme Court of Florida will have to step in. does the state attorney general really want to risk a decision against these stings? Then anyone convicted can re-appeal their case. it will be a nightmare for LE. I hate that the system is so damm slow but soon we will bag our justice. the old hank in Polk won't have anyone to convict.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 26, 2013 at 7:29 PM
Accardi Doctrine:
"[T]he Accardi doctrine ... provides that when an agency fails to follow its own procedures or regulations, that agency's actions are generally invalid."
"The Accardi doctrine stands for the unremarkable proposition that an agency must abide by its own regulations. Thus, an agency's failure to afford an individual procedural safeguards required under its own regulations may result in the invalidation of the ultimate administrative determination."
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/A/AccardiDoctrine.aspx
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 26, 2013 at 8:31 PM
There is one thing I still dont understand. First I didnt know that talking about sex with a fake minor or a real minor was illegal. I did know that to have sex is illegal. The other thing is how can they arrest someone because was thinking or talking about doing something? Is someone is talking about to put a bomb on a subway and they heard the conversation and the guy says the bomb will be blown at 5pm and the guy go to the train station at that time but with no bomb on him can they arrest u and charge you? Eventhough you didnt have the bomb on you or any tools to set it? I mean as far as i know they have to catch you with the evidence on hand to charge you and have a case. Since when thinking or talking is illegal? How can br laws for that?? Where is the freedom of speech ?? Can someone help me undestand why this is happening and why is legal?
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Brian RAugust 27, 2013 at 5:42 PM
It is legal because when you travel to meet, that is thought becoming action.
Keep their side in mind. If I try to entrap you to sell drugs, A cop is allowed to sell you drugs. You can touch the drugs and see it.
Cops are not allowed to have a minor waiting for you to make a move. So hence comes travel to meet charge and maybe attempted act of lewd behavior.
On their side, they are doing th best to catch people. Does it have an error rate?
I believe so. Only 1 to 2 people out of ten, get charges of child porn or have done it before. That would be 80% error rate.
In my bust only 3 people out of 22 went to prison. One had done it before, one had child porn, and the other had very explicit conversation that must seemed undeniable.
The hardest part, please read, if you want rights to apply to you or your case. YOU HAVE TO STAND AND FIGHT FOR THEM. You are guilty until proven innocent. If you think its entrapment, then fight, lose, then appeal.
This is America, you dont get what you deserve, you get what you are asking for.
Most people dont fight, this why it is still going on. Out of 22 people, only 3 are fighting it. Only the people fighting are the ones making a difference. Everyone taking a deal, hurts the rest of us. Stand up for you rights, fight for them. No one is going to give them to you.
Thank you for reading
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HavanawebsolutionsAugust 27, 2013 at 7:20 PM
Thanks a lot brian. The other thing that really bothers me men if that they say on public television that if someone said .. I dont want to talk to u or im not interested they drop it right there.. That is a lie. When i learned the age i told them i was not interested and that she shouldt br pn adult sites and 5 hours later they came back at me to entrap me.
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4evermomAugust 27, 2013 at 7:55 PM
Brian,
When you are faced with making a decision and your attorney tells you theres a 70/30 chance of guilty verdict coming back on at least one charge of the four, 70% against you, and you have a child and wife that are being told lose him for 3 years or 10 plus, you take that plea because of intimidation and bullying by our court/legal system and fear of not allowing your child the chance to know his dad. Not because ypu dont want to fight. Regardless of what your reason was for answering an ad, and there may not even be a reason you can even determine, I commend a man that puts his family first based on information he has been given by someone you have hired to guide you.. Most of these guys are so overwhelmed with the emotions following their arrest and the constant back and forth to "useless case management meetings"before the judge, and once the judge demands it goes to trial before you and your lawyer is ready, you make that intimadated and bullied decision to take a plea. You take it out of fear and love for your family, not because you dont want to fight.
For scared momma...we were also misled and am too finding out our son will not be able to have his son visit. That too helped make the decision to accept the plea. Any state prosecutors reading this blog that assured an accused man he could see his kids while incarcerated, not sure how you sleep at night, shame on you!
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Brian RAugust 27, 2013 at 8:00 PM
This is true, I never even brought up sex, they did.
Then they wanted hang out but would not let me come over until I agreed.
They are entrapping you, tricking you, bending the law on you.
If you really want to know why? It is called intimidation. They scare you with the possibility of ten years or 8 years in prison.
Since no one fights, why would it end.
In this world at this time, it takes hammers to make people listen. It takes death.
No one cares about Casey Anthony and how bad of mom she is until her kid is dead. No one cares about the Stand your ground law until a black kid coming home from 7-11 gets murdered.
Things dont get fixed until people notice things are broken. No one knows things are broken (LIKE THE JUDGES, LIKE THE PROSCECUTORS, LIKE MEDIA) unless me, you and everyone fights.
Change in this country does not come from rational reasoning. It comes from consistent perisistant scream of change. NOW HOW DO WE DO IT.
We contact everyone involved in a sting and tell them to fight. If 40 people get busted in a sting. And 40 people file for entrapment motion. How many can be denied? How many will a judge hear in a county and ignore the obvious. 10? 20? 30? How many does it take. More than one, two, three.
If we really want to make a difference. We got to get everyone to fight, not make deals. We need to get a civil lawyer willing to sue the government for entrapment and character issues.
Think about. If everyone fought, how many of us could they send to prison until they stop and grant our motions of entrapment. Cause the 10 motions a year is not cutting it.
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Brian RAugust 27, 2013 at 8:11 PM
4evermom,
Everyone, (like you) I talked to, that took the deal regret it. Thats why I dont take it. Fighting for years and winning, is a better strain than taking the deal and dealing with it for 25 years.
If you took a plea becuase of intimidation, you do not read the plea, where it asks if you are being intimidated. I told the judge I was being intimidated to take a deal. You should have read the plea, it asks if you are on drugs, emotionally distressed or intimidated. They ask this to make it harder to appeal. Most terrible decisions are made in fear. The judge has given me and my lawyer years to work on this case.
If you dont fight, then what? What happens to your son when he gets out. Is he employable? Where can he live? How can he afford the probation? Etc..
Prosecutors sleep fine. Remember it is their job to win, not lose. They are not judges, they are public servants asked to prosecute people who arrested. If they let your son go, and hypothetically he does it again. The prosecutor who took it easy on them, can get fired. This is the motivation for prosecutors to always win or deal.
The whole point is begging for mercy or change will not work. Fight fire with fire. Make them prove they prevented a crime rather than creating one. Its their job to scare you, its your decision to fight or make a deal. I have not met one person who has taken deal where they are on the list and happy about it.
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Talkn StangAugust 27, 2013 at 9:49 PM
i have said it before and i will say it again...it is OK to take a plea if your deal gets you no jail time and no sex offender probation as long as you had an entrapment motion that was wrongfully denied that you can appeal. It has happened, and an appellate bond has kept them even from being on probation during appeal
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Brian RAugust 27, 2013 at 11:18 PM
Basically to not do a motion for entrapment due to threats from prosecutions of a deal withdrawal should intimidate you.
You should file for a motion to dismiss, then make a deal.
Right?
And if everyone did that in one sting. If 3 judges in one year had to listen to more than ten motions. The odds of success go up exponentially. Think about it.
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scaredmommaAugust 28, 2013 at 5:54 AM
For those of you not yet doing time,do not believe anything your being told or being misled,when you get sent to prison,your minor children cannot visit you,not ever in prison,it is due to your charges,the dept.of corrections,uses ever statute against you,we know.we were told my son could have visits with his kids-not true,so florida not only convicts innocent men,they rip their families apart,if you get told by anyone they try to keep families together,its a huge lie,you will learn the true facts,once you are on the inside doing your time.also they will send you minimum 100miles away from your family also.they do their very best to get you to screw up so they can extend your sentance also.it is a horrible way to treat these men,now i hear thefla.legislatue is trying to extend prison time and other restrictions and also add other things& changes for sex offenders,be watching and waiting,it will begin in march.2014,yea we need more punishment for the wrongly accused!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 28, 2013 at 1:51 PM
Ok, we need to emphasize some things again. First, stings are designed to catch criminals and even if ONE innocent person is caught then it did not work (Blackstone's Formulation). Even the "predisposed" person is innocent under objective entrapment because cops can NEVER just "get lucky" as this is a violation of due process. Second, if someone is lied to so they will plea then it can be withdrawn at ANY time because it's an illegal conviction and a violation of due process. THESE STINGS VIOLATE DUE PROCESS FROM CONCEPTION TO BIRTH AND BEYOND. DUE PROCESS IS DUE!
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 3:35 AM
You are absolutely correct. Why the courts have failed until recently, i am not 100% certain, but there is no doubt it has something to do with the types of agencies that have collaborated during these operations. We are talking about agencies at the highest level of government. They have somehow convinced the courts that their operations are SOLID AS A ROCK and within the boundaries of the law, but they are sadly mistaking! But what Judd and Williams and some others have done in Florida has create a state where it has become acceptable for ROGUE LAW ENFORCEMENT to perform these unjust operations in total disregard of one's DUE PROCESS. It is an atrocity and those who are responsible will eventually be held accountable. It is inevitable!
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Brian RAugust 28, 2013 at 2:07 PM
Talkstang, dont you think things would be different if everyone in a sting did a motion for entrapment rather than 10-15% of the arrested doing it.
Imagine, if everyone from each sting did a motion. Dont you think that speed up the process of eliminating these stings?
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 3:20 AM
the way i look at it is if you were not online looking for a minor, then you were entrapped without a doubt... EVERYONE should file an entrapment motion indeed, regardless of any denial! If everyone filed these motions, perhaps it could show prosecutorial misconduct...i can't really speculate on what would happen, but it would be interesting if you had entrapment motions filed on 100% of those arrested.
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screwed in lee countyAugust 28, 2013 at 3:56 PM
I have a motions hearing next week. the judge still has not ruled on the motion to suppress the interrogation on Miranda grounds yet. that hearing was July 29th. remember this from the time you are in custody til they interrogated you they must give you miranda. if they ask you. "Do u know why your here?" And u give an incriminating statement. then give you miranda. that statement is inadmissable and they have to tell you that. if they then use that statement to start the interrogation all of it is thrown out. us supreme court decision Seibert. I am still waiting for the judge to rule on that motion. the two motions being argued are simple. the arrest was an illegal stop. I was at a public restaurant. anonymous tips must be validated. Florida Vs Travers.read the decision if you think the arrest was illegal. the other motion was to limit mention of the profile picture. the cops used a pic of a cop when he was 15. This violates the standards issued by the attorney general for ICAC. violation of the standards could cost the receiptients of federal funding all their money. look at the memorandum of understanding between the local police and regional ICAC. There is a section that absolves the local police of any liability if their police violate the standards. the counties are smart to cover their ass. They don't want to be sued by innocent people arrested during these stings. there is another section which states how complaints can be filed against the police for violating the standards. I thought the police were trained in how not to violate them. I have a news article about a Virginia police department under investigation by the FBI for violations. the police chief was forced to resign. law enforcement are not perfect they screw up. your lawyer needs to find these screw ups.
after these motions are ruled on. if I am still going to trial my lawyer will file a motion to dismiss based on objective and subjective entrapment. My lawyer filed these motions a week ago and the state has yet to file their response.
does anyone know if there is a state procedure requirement on how long the state has to respond? What if they dont and we go to the hearing? Would the state be acting in bad faith by not telling my lawyer their response before the hearing?
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 10:56 AM
what motions were filed again and when?
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screwed in lee countyAugust 29, 2013 at 11:07 AM
Motion to dismiss on illegal stop(Traders decision) and motion to limine on the pic. they were file August 21st. hearing is next wednesday. the state has not filed their response to these as of yet
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 11:29 AM
are you planning on going to trial? no motion for entrapment?
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screwed in lee countyAugust 30, 2013 at 1:30 PM
We are trying to get the case thrown out based on these motions. if they fail then we will file objective and subjective entrapment motions. I'm looking at a possible Oct trial if it goes that far. I am waiting to see how the 1st DCA rules on the July arguments. any word on judge Lakins rulings or if he made any more dismissals
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reptiledudeSeptember 21, 2013 at 9:32 AM
LEE COUNTY ~
"there is another section which states how complaints can be filed against the police for violating the standards."
....... where is this ???? please tell me / let me know ....i want to do that .... it was done to me ....they also sent me an ILLEGAL picture when they started this whole thing .... they did it when they pulled the 'bait and switch' ...... please advise
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InsanejusticeAugust 28, 2013 at 4:20 PM
My son is in prison but working his way out, I hope! He was part of a sting and cut off communication with the law enforcement. He did not get arrested with the rest of them but on his own, days later. They lied, lured and kept at him until he gave in. But is entrapment his next choice? After this first appeal where are we to head? He plead no contest and they stated outright lies in court, he wants to go with that. Is that a good idea since they kept coming after him for days and then fabricated and lost emails?
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 3:14 AM
there are options....the best thing to do would be to consult with a "liberal" attorney about your son's case. If you need any advice, feel free to email me. The process is slow, but you have to BELIEVE
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screwed in lee countyAugust 28, 2013 at 9:41 PM
Hell yes. if he took the plea under duress. Did he argue entrant at trial. if he didn't he can't on appeal. the appeal court can only look at the facts presented at trial. he could go for incompetent counsel. look over the operation standards and see if the police violated any of them. look over my previous post and see if anything sounds familiar to you.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 3:06 AM
Listen, i know we have many followers on this blog now and the hits have steadily increased over time. We also know that there are some that follow the blog that just read what people have to say, and that is fine. But what we need is somebody who has had their case dismissed to step up to the plate and help the cause. In order for things to change, we have to make the public aware of what is going on, and we need your help. Although we are making progress, we still have yet to have our side of the story told......if you are somebody who has been fortunate enough to have won their case, or had your case dismissed, PLEASE CONTACT ME at talknstang@yahoo.com and i will explain. REMEMBER, we have to do something about all those innocent guys sitting there in prison for no damn reason. We need your help. Thanks.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 3:48 AM
Also, something else we need to do in support of all those imprisoned is bring the current FBI investigation with Georgia's ICAC operations to Florida. Those violations with that task force do not even compare to the violations happening here in Florida. If we can file a complaint with the FBI and inform them of the same type of misconduct is occurring in Florida, then we have a good chance of shutting things down and Florida having to review all those that have been wronged. That is no easy task, but frankly, i am not exactly comfy with filing that complaint. It is going to take somebody who knows someone within that agency or somebody who has a connection at the highest levels. My complaint to the Sen. Jud. Committee was unsuccessful after i even informed them of the Georgia operations. Their response to me was..."protecting the children TRUMPS everything" and suggested i contact the FBI! Without going into details, i do expect them to change their tone soon. If you or anybody has a contact, please contact me @ talknstang@yahoo.com. There have been some that do have contacts, but the more the merrier.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 4:33 AM
one other thing, i would like to take a moment to publicly thank a few of my comrades that have worked tirelessly to help get information out to others. It hasn't been an easy road, but we would not have had the success that we have had without your dedication to the cause. Regardless of what anybody says, we have made great strides in a relatively short amount of time, and the BLOG is as alive ever. You guys have done a tremendous service for so many who had pretty much given up. You have given people hope when they thought all was lost and the feeling you get inside knowing that you helped somebody out makes it all worth while We know there is much work to do, but it has been a privilege working with such a dedicated group of individuals. Toujours Pret
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 5:01 AM
I am going to re-post the link to COSMO v. State for those of you who are not familiar with this Georgia case. This case really opened the door to what is happening in Georgia at the present time along with some help from one of our people! (i know who you are, lol)There is some great language in here that shows how this court properly interpreted and applied the law in accordance with Georgia's "solicitation" statutes
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ga-court-of-appeals/1625487.html
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Justice MyersAugust 29, 2013 at 7:55 AM
I have a question, when my attorney took the deposition of the investigator I talked to, he lied stating he followed the procedures, and he let the target set the tone, pace, subject matter of the conversation. If we can get him impeached, is there a way his actions can be null/void? If so, therefore since he's the only one I talked to the state wouldn't have a case. Anyone who has knowledge to the question please respond.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM
you didnt send me a copy of that did you? if so, i need to reread it, if not, i'd like to read it. I have read so many and there are clearly contradictions occurring in law enforcements statements all over the place
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 9:02 AM
well if you have proof that he lied during the deposition in regards to abiding by the rules in the Op manual, then if i were your attorney, i would be all over that. Its all about tactics....your attorney should know what to do, but those are indicators for entrapment. EVERYONE NEEDS TO FILE AN ENTRAPMENT MOTION unless you are a true predator and were trying to actually solicit a minor...and we know that is just not the case, but if you were, you need to seek treatment and this blog is not the place for you, lol discrediting the testimony of a sworn officer will go a long way into proving your case for sure. It proves that these are not "GOOD FAITH" efforts to catch true predators but they are poorly set traps that are ensnaring unsuspecting men by using sex as the bait!
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 10:25 AM
i am going to comment about the interrogation process that takes place after an arrest. Typically, an interrogation is a method used by cops to get a criminal to confess to their wrongdoings by using tactics/techniques meant to break you down. In a real crime interrogation situation, yes, cops can actually bend and break the rules, lie, cheat, steal, whatever.....ask leading and suggestive questions to get you to "spill the beans" In these sting interrogations you are a TRUE CRIMINAL in their minds, they want to get you to say things like, "i knew what i did was wrong", or "i have a problem", etc. Anything to get you to say something that will show predisposition. The best thing to do is say nothing but of course, you are not really thinking right after an arrest under duress and people say things that didn't mean to say. This is just part of the stupid game they play that works in their favor. I guess what i am getting at is if you are not predisposed, which most are not, yet you totally flub up your interrogation, YES, that can be a big problem, but if you are found not predisposed and either didnt say anything or played stupid during their ridiculous interrogation, you have something working for you. REVIEW YOUR INTERROGATIONS CAREFULLY. The sooner you catch anything you might have said out of context, etc, the better chance you have with fighting it.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 10:47 AM
let us know if anybody is having issues with their attorneys not wanting to file entrapment motions. We have some suggestions, but try to work with your attorneys. I hate having to harp on this issue, but it is the most important motion in any sting related case there is!
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Justice MyersAugust 29, 2013 at 12:24 PM
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Justice MyersAugust 29, 2013 at 12:29 PM
I think Travers case is a good one to cite because it was an internet sting, and from what I hear that's very important since the courts are so damn technical. Are there anymore cases specifically from internet stings?
The key things in these cases that HAVE to be disputed, will be them calling this a "pro-active investigation" and saying we "only offer the opportunity", and here's why. I believe those are the things that protect them with these stings. So we have to find a way to negate that (and we have one). Furthermore it seems the courts only want to focus on the conversation and nothing else. So when you talk about objective entrapment random targeting they WILL say this is an pro-active investigation and Lusby negates that, then they WILL say we only offer the opportunity and Lusby also negates that, and it seems like common sense but it NEEDS to be explained why. If those things can be disputed YOU WILL WIN, because that's what they use to protect these illegal stings. So, from what I'm hearing Travers will be a good one because, I believe he was ensnared during an internet sting. The courts seem to think that different stings have very different rules and that's just not true.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 1:14 PM
you have corroborated what i have stated many times over which is essentially the courts are totally missing the concept of entrapment as it relates to these stings. The definition doesn't change according to the type of sting and neither does 777.201, lol
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Justice MyersAugust 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Wait a damn second, what they write in the procedures isn't really what a pro-active investigation is. They want to make you believe a pro-active investigation is an undercover investigation where you have to talk to people to see who the "criminals" are. But the legal definition of an pro-active investigation is stopping the CRIME before it happens. We all know what that means, where's the reasonable suspicion?...If in court they don't define pro-active investigation the way it's supposed to be defined, correct them. Or better yet your attorney can bring it up along with the reasonable suspicion. So with that being said why haven't I seen anyone talk about the prioritization scale on the procedures. Where it states cases may be initiated from tips etc. And the very first thing on that scale is a child must beat immediate risk of victimization. I wasn't going to use that at first because they call this a proactive investigation and I was under the impression that it meant what they want you to believe, and that would have contradicted the prioritization scale, but know it all makes sense. They absolutely have to have reasonable suspicion/probable cause that CRIME is occurring. And that scale needs to be brought up as well, don't neglect it. And with that, I feel stupid lol.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 1:25 PM
those procedures are so flawed and lack any true content,rules, and meaning. Who made those up any way is what i like to know? Now something that should happen is that the rules should change from different types of stings. EG. if you place a damn ad into the general population in a proactive type sting operation where everyone is a target, you damn well better know how to properly weed out the innocent and unsuspecting. THIS IS THE BIGGEST FLAW with law enforcement. They are not doing this. Just because a UC officer might say they are 15 once or twice and the conversation is continued does not suffice in creating that target and labeling them a predator in order to make an arrest. This is a due process issue for sure and what is even more pathetic is they cannot even seem to follow the few rules they do have!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 30, 2013 at 1:17 AM
YOU KNOW THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE MADE UP THOSE RULES AND THEY ARE A MATTER OF FEDERAL LAW!!!
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aladdinAugust 30, 2013 at 12:59 PM
It doesn't matter what you think about the ICAC Standards, whether you think they should be stronger or different for different types of investigations. Even as flawed or weak as you think they are all that matters is if there were clear violations of them because compliance is mandated by federal law. Any violation is a matter of law and a question of due process. Think about it, "Your honor the only constraints on law enforcement actions during these investigations are these simple, easy to follow Standards developed by the ICAC program itself that the United States Congress mandated compliance with and yet the first thing this investigator did was completely ignore them just to generate an arrest statistic."
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screwed in lee countyAugust 29, 2013 at 1:05 PM
If you want to write to the senators on the judiciary committed to complain. here's who you should be writing to:
Senator Patrick Leahy- chairman of committee
Diane Feinstein Calif
Shumer-NY
Dick Durbin-Ill-subcommittee chair on Constitution and Civil Rights
Al Franken-MN- committed chair on Privacy Technology and Law
Amy Klobuchar-committed chair on administrative oversight and courts
those were the democrats that might help
the only Republicans maybe are Graham-SC. CRUZ OF TEXAS. Hatch of Utah.
the democrats control the senate. the committed chairperson has control over what bills are brought to committed and what to investigate. They can investigate these stings and write bills to change the laws.
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 1:09 PM
like they told me, "protecting the children TRUMPS everything". So until we get exposure on this issue like in Georgia, then we will not succeed with any legislative branch of government. It will happen!
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InsanejusticeAugust 29, 2013 at 4:03 PM
My son got 7 years from an online sting done in St. John's County. He was just granted a belated appeal. I know this is a baby step. However, there were lies told to the judge from the prosecutor and detective. My son had 9 character witnesses, a letter from a counsellor and pseudo sexual specialist. The lawyer never objected. They took my son away who had never had any criminal history or child porn on his computer!
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Talkn StangAugust 29, 2013 at 6:22 PM
we are sorry to hear about your son, but we are optimistic for change soon and that is what we are working on tirelessly. We know the pain and suffering they have inflicted on men and families. It is absolutely horrible. It truly makes you question what kind of America do we really live in? Any nation that subjects its own citizens to this kind of injustice without recourse is a nation in peril. When you cannot trust your government to do what is right, who do you turn to? We will not stop until the truth is exposed and those men who have been wrongfully convicted are freed!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 30, 2013 at 1:16 AM
Our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS DO NOT TRUMP "PROTECTING CHILDREN" AND THEY ONLY SAID THAT BECAUSE THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WERE TELLING THEM.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comAugust 31, 2013 at 3:48 AM
NEW CASE LAW ADDED TO THE "CASE LAW LINKS" PAGE! See PAMBLANCO VS. STATE. THIS CASE IS DROPPING ATTEMPTED LEWD BATTERY CHARGES LIKE HOT CAKES!!!
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Talkn StangSeptember 1, 2013 at 3:29 PM
add Cosmo v. State and also People v. Villapondo. Both of these cases are Craigslist related, and although they are mainly about the courts inability to instruct the jury on entrapment, they are very important because of the similarities.
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scaredmommaSeptember 2, 2013 at 3:06 PM
insanejustice,my son was also sentanced to 63months prison.1 yr sex offender probation,and like all the rest sex offender registry for life,he had no prior record-not even a speeding ticket,nothing,also he had no child porn anywhere either,it doesnt matter,its all about that money they get for convictions,period,our men are just a price tag,nothing more,the families that are destroyed and torn apart arent anything to them either.we goit to see my son for the first time on saturday,he is very skinny,he has been in bay c.f since june5th,he did weigh 198lbs,now he weighs 164lbs,that is 34lb loss,he says the food is nasty there.and he is scared all the time,the saddest parts for me is him being in there,and his children not seeing him for 63months,they probly wont remember him.i truly hate the law enforcement here ,i have been made to realize,you are guilty no matter what,according to the judges the cops dont lie!!bull&%$^.i know better.alot was not fair for my son,but he got his trial,even though it was biased as could be,waiting on his conflict free council lawyer.they have to asighn one by the 6th,we will see.
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InsanejusticeSeptember 3, 2013 at 12:19 AM
Scaredmomma, I understand so well where you are coming from. My son has no children thank goodness, that would add a terrible part to this! As you can see by the time of my post I sleep very little due to trying to learn abou "case law" ! Since being granted. His belated appeal , he was moved the same day... Now he has very limited access to law books! They seem to know every trick! We don't know what comes next? What is this conflict free council? I'm trying to get all the necessary discovery together from our "3" lawyers we went through so we can proceed now that we are broke!!! As you say... It seems to be all about money! If anyone knows what happens after this is granted I would appreciate a response.
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scaredmommaSeptember 4, 2013 at 11:13 AM
you get conflict free councel for your appeal if you fired your public defender due to not doing their job,or not being good coucil.we fired my sons public defender for trying to threaten my son into plea,with we withdrew right after.im not sure what happens next either,im just riding this out for now.
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Justice MyersSeptember 3, 2013 at 8:30 AM
I really don't want to sound negative or worry anyone. But if you or a loved one gets convicted, for your safety, DO NOT tell ANYBODY in prison what you are really there for. I know people who have been and I have heard that "child molesters" are who they hate most. Again I really hate to say that I just want everyone to be safe.
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scaredmommaSeptember 4, 2013 at 11:17 AM
that is true,they think my son is their for weed,if they knew the truth,he would probly be dead!the other inmates will beat child molesters to death if they can,even if they are innocent,thats why we are scared for our son.i believe the cops know this and the guards probly dont care.they will more than likely look away.
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screwed in lee countySeptember 5, 2013 at 6:16 AM
Lost my two motions yesterday. the judge isn't too sympathetic to my case. they are offering a deal today. sex offender registry is a must. I could get probation or up to 2 yrs in jail but I could goto trial and take a chance. my lawyer thinks that the entrampmenr defense is weak.he doesn't see the police enticing me. I am arguing that I didn't believe he was 15. I hope a jury believes me. This is getting me depressed and suicidal. I can't believe the cops get away with this shit
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Talkn StangSeptember 5, 2013 at 8:47 PM
in a case like that, you need to show that this was not a good faith effort to catch a true predator and use those ICAC standards to show any obvious violations. Ensure that your attorney requests a jury instruction on entrapment. You have to show how that law enforcement has no business placing ads into the general population on adult websites. The tactics law enforcement implores is what should be what is on trial, not you. If you can do this and predisposition is not in question, you have a chance. We have all the ammunition you need to succeed at trial, but it is all about how it is delivered.
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Brian RSeptember 5, 2013 at 8:18 AM
Screwed in Lee county. Keep your head up. Most judges dont want to risk their career on an entrapment hearing for these stings. That is expected. But no matter what happens here you are allowed to appeal that motion to better judges.
In polk county, Chad Siperly got a hung jury for travel to meet. That is progress. He got attempted battery thrown out with the motion using PAMBLANCO VS. STATE. He was found guilty of COMPUTER STMTS FOR PURP OF SEX CONDUCT W/CHILD and Illegal use of a two way. He will be on the list but probably not get time but probation. Which he is appealing already. My point is he got a better result by fighting than giving up.
I would only take a deal based on the charge, if the prosecutor is willing to give you a deal that does not put you on the list. example attempted child abuse, child abuse, illegal use of a two way are the most common. Take it, then appeal. If the prosecutor is going to give you a deal where the charge puts you on the list, then you might as well fight. Remember when you lose and it is sentencing time. There is no victim. Victims are the ones that makes judges angry at you the defendant. Whether the victim is for burglary, murder, etc. You have no victim. No one can take the stand and start crying about how you hurt them and they will never be the same. Cause you have no victim. You destroyed no property. The victim is the cop, which by the time the trial is done, the judge might not like the cop, hence the victim. What you are is an example. And if you have no previous criminal record, the judge will know and your lawyer or PD will ask the judge for leniency.
That is my two cents. Your emotions are normal, you are not crazy, you are in a crazy situation and you should be feeling that way, there is nothing wrong with you. DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED OR MAKE A DECISION BASED ON FEAR. People are trying to ruin your life, it should depress you. If the feelings get overwhelmed get help, get medicated, goto ER.
Do not hurt yourself, turn that sadness into anger, you might not have asked for this fight, but you are in it, so you got to fight back. That is the history of man, great battles to protect yourself, family and country.
There is no kidding yourself, you are in the fight of your life, as soon as you shed your fear, the sooner you will be able to fight back better.
If you feel wronged, if you feel you are innocent, there is only one way to let the rest of the world know that. That is by fighting it. That is my two cents.
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Brian RSeptember 5, 2013 at 8:29 AM
Also scared momma and Justice Meyers, I dont know aht your jailing experience is like. but people here is the truth from experience.
If you are found guilty of a sexual offender or predator crime. You do not go to easy prison. You go to Max prison with lifers and rapists and other violent offenders hence Max security. No picking up garbage on the highway, you are considered to much of a risk for that, you might rape a child if they let you out in public. No work programs.
What happens is you get stuck with people who are charged with the same crimes as you. This is due to under the belief another child molester would not hurt another one. Or if you are scared you can do your time solitary or PC which means you never any contact with another person but a guard. But everyone knows why you are there. Most common reason the guards there tell everyone. From my experience 8 out of 10 guards hate you. Just like most people hate their job, so do they. They take it out on you. They judge you, ridicule you, Use the Master and Dom technique. Second everytime you move in with someone in a cell, they call home and ask someone to look you up on the net. These people are not stupid and have a lot of free time especially to talk and spread rumors. They will find out who you really are shortly. Wouldn't you want to know who you are bunked with? logical right? just one phonecall to someone with the internet.
There is no hiding, you can lie say you are there for weed, but logically people are not considered maximum threat for weed and criminals know this. I am not saying to not lie, what I am saying is dont be shocked it doesnt work or last long.
Personally I stayed in PC, it was boring, there was no tv, no trading food, books, playing chess or monopoly, no human contact. But I never felt in danger except from the guards.
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Brian RSeptember 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen one last thought.
We were raised to believe that we are innocent until proven guilty, that America is the best country in the world and we are safe. Throughout my lifetime. I learned America is not the greatest country, we are not the best in economy, education and have more criminal per capita than any other country. We do have the best TV, movies and the NFL. Unfortunately that is what most people do watch tv, movies, etc.
But overall, we are also taught that millions have died to get us this far. World War I, World War II, The Holocaust, Civil War, Desert Storm, 9/11 which lead to our last war. These are just the wars since America was found. There many more wars, like the story of Troy or Spartacus.
Many humans have found themselves in danger, to protect their homes and future. With guns, grenades and fear. But they fought, cause they had no choice.
Just your family is scared for you, you are scared for yourself, but once you accept that it is out of your hands, is when you really find out what you are made of. Who you are. Embrace these tough times, as family member or victim, and understand you are fighting for your freedom. Freedom your supposed birth given right of these supposed great country. If you do not fight for your rights, then you don't deserve them.
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Talkn StangSeptember 5, 2013 at 9:03 PM
I know it is difficult people, but somehow you have to dig down deep and understand that things are going to change. We find ourselves in a brutal fight against a serious injustice occurring in our country and as much pain and suffering that has been inflicted on families and innocent men, we are on the brink of making a difference. Just a few things need to occur, and once they do, then it will be GAME ON! This has by far been the toughest battle i've even been through, and i have been on the front lines during war, but what we are going to need is for everybody to step up to the plate here shortly. We have a battle plan together that if implemented properly and things transpire as we anticipate, will make all the difference in the world. My heart truly goes out to those who have suffered the worst from these bullshit operations, but luckily we have a dedicated group of people that are doing what they can to put an end to this crap. I am as anxious and optimistic as ever that things are going to change, but for now, we just need everyone to believe!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 6, 2013 at 3:28 AM
THAT'S RIGHT!!! Get ready to come out of hiding! We are not going to let law enforcement and the media lie to the public anymore. We are not going to let the prosecutors office play mind games with the accused anymore by trying to make them and the judge believe that they are violent and dangerous child predators! WE ARE GOING TO EXPOSE THESE STINGS FOR WHAT THEY ARE AND IT IS GOING TO TAKE EVERYONE. Everyone should be standing side by side and not behind each other SCREAMING THAT THESE OPERATIONS ARE ENTRAPMENT SCHEMES MEANT TO MAKE MONEY AND RUIN LIVES. Screaming that these operations set up innocent men by encouraging them to take part in a fantasy that is not their own! Screaming that IT IS LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO ARE THE CRIMINALS!
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Talkn StangSeptember 5, 2013 at 9:07 PM
Ryu Nolin, if you read this, we need you desperately. It sure would help to get your story out, or somebody who has been seriously railroaded that is not afraid to step up to the plate. My email is talknstang@yahoo.com.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 6, 2013 at 3:18 AM
Well we also have to remember about the federal procedures that need to be subpoenaed! You know, the ones that state they are not allowed to use adult dating websites. As far as the violation of the procedures we already have; ALL of the cases violate the procedures. Furthermore, someone mentioned the "priority scale" and that is exceptionally important. The priority scale is the biggest violation of them all because it shows that these stings are not good faith efforts. Priority #1 is that a child must be in immediate danger and that is never the case.
IT IS ILLEGAL for cops to pose as promiscuous teens and use the expressed OR IMPLIED interest in sex to "attract people's attention" AND INDUCE/ENCOURAGE THE COMMISSION OF A "CRIME". A lot of detectives try to minimize the situation when asked about their dialogue being sexually motived by responding with things like "that does not have to be taken as a sexual comment". THIS GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT IT WAS THE TARGET that was thinking about sex and not "the minor". DO NOT let them be so obtuse and point out that the website was specifically designed with sex in mind so it is assumed THAT ALL COMMENTS ARE SEXUAL INNUENDOES!!! Furthermore, with the ads that are being placed I don't see how in the hell they are getting away with saying that they were not talking about sex.
REMEMBER, the purpose of this movement IS TO SHUT DOWN THE ILLEGAL STINGS AND NOT TO MERELY WIN A CASE! While it is important to win a lot of cases in order to accomplish this goal, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF WE DID NOT HAVE TO "BREAK SO MANY EGGS". Intimidation to plea should not work!!! Get your entrapment motions filed!!! Get your motion to dismiss charges filed using cases like Pamblanco and Travers. (Both very important cases) If none of this works, do not be discouraged because it is just the judge.
This is not legal advice and we are not attorneys.
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Justice MyersSeptember 6, 2013 at 9:06 AM
Exactly, I guarantee you the priority scale is what they're afraid of most about those procedures.
Any word from the 1st DCA on that case? I see a lot of people believe this could be a big win for us, but what do people think that? If the opinion rules in our favor, do you think it's going to say something extremely specific about these stings like the Aguirre case?
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Talkn StangSeptember 6, 2013 at 8:37 AM
something that an attorney can do during an opening statement is show how these ICAC operations have already come under scrutiny in other states as in Georgia for clear violations of their rules. Anything that can show that this was not a good faith effort to catch a true predator should be used. It is really not that hard if law enforcement was clearly steering the conversation, were the aggressors, placed a suggestive bait and switch ad, used untrained personnel, etc. especially if it is undisputed that predisposition in not in question which is usually the case in most instances. Once your attorney is done doing that, get that stupid detective on the stand and let your attorney rip him/ her apart! You will have success!
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Brian RSeptember 6, 2013 at 4:49 PM
Preparing for my motions, any depos, new cases, etc. that my lawyer can use would be appreciated.
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 9, 2013 at 6:52 AM
Im having my motion to dismiss hearing soon. Any info that you think i can present that will help me and the cause? PLease share your opinion so i can take it to my lawyer.
Thanks
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scaredmommaSeptember 9, 2013 at 7:26 AM
i know you are all doing what you can to try and set things right,but you need to remember somethings,you are not in prison,you are outside.im not blaming you,i am stating facts,you are not in danger of being beaten to death by other inmates,it is a real possibility,and nobody can prevent it,you are not alone,my son is completely cut off from his family,as is all the others in prison.i read all the blogs,i get it,you are doing everything you can to help.but i for one am not hiding,i am dealing with the fallout of this mess,financial destitution,family turmoil,divorce is looming for me,yes i am angry,i have alot of reasons to be,i am trying to be patient,i keep hearing its comming,but will it be in time?some of us are running out of time!i guess some of us will fall thru the cracks of time.i just keep hoping it comes soon.it has been almost 2years since my sons arrest,it doesnt look any farther ahead now then it did then.i am not trying to make anyone feel bad,i just need you to see the other side of this also,i am not alone in this side of the story,alot of us are on borrowed time,and we know it.as i said before alot of us are one check or one day from total devastation.our sons or husbands are on borrowed time in prison,the inmates will find out who our men are,when that happens it might very well end very badly for some.then everything that has been tried is not enough for the one whos time ran out.please dont set their and say it is time to fight,we that are without our famil member are trying our best to not give up.we have been fighting since day one,i see no difference at all.except alot of us are now penniless due to our fight,which did us no good,they still got convicted,they still went to prison,and we still see no light at the end of this horrible tunnel.we are here watching and waiting,believe that!we havent disappeared,we just dont have alot of resources left,fight on we will.and we do thankyou all for fighting for us.just you remember our loved one is on the inside.not on the outside.we have that burden to carry also,and hope we dont make a mistake and get them harmed in the process.
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 9, 2013 at 9:11 AM
If anyone can find the news article where sarasota deputy says: we want then to say im not interested, so we can leave then alone. That what we want to hear.
I need that article because even though i said im not interested they came back at me hours later.
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 9, 2013 at 9:41 AM
I found the article is bellow. They say they want people to say things like.. Im not interested ot get off from the internet and thay stop there but we all know is not true they did it to me and many of us who said i dont want to talk to you or similar comments. Read the article. This shows very clear they are using entrapment.
http://www.bradenton.com/2013/03/25/4452970/manatee-sheriff-to-announce-results.html
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reptiledudeSeptember 9, 2013 at 5:34 PM
thanks everyone for the information and reassurance that all is not lost ..... I did think that way for a while after I bonded out ..... im just starting this whole process, and its turned my life upside down ..... I live alone and my animals are my life, and this whole BS sting has basically marooned me on an island by myself ... save formony and evaluation .... it looks like this is going to be a very long and rough road ahead .... i won a property return motion where said property supporting the factual and ACTUAL reason that i had traveled anywhere and went to meet this 'person' in the first place, in support of my self-employed JOB .... my family all but abandoned me, got me out of jail right before the deadline that animal services set upon me with a phone call to the jail that they were going to KILL my animals if I didnt get out within 7 days (my SERVICE DOG and 2 of my reptiles, who 2 weeks later, both DIED anyway from what I feel was sickness from being at animal services in incompetent hands) ... then they basically ceased to acknowledge i exist now ..... my animals nor I have anywhere to go to weather this Shi*storm led by FDLE and Gradys sadistic squad of rouge scholar cohorts on a quest for HIS brand of 'Perverted Justice' .... and more federal grant MONEY .... Judd declined to participate in the actual tv show, but that hasnt stopped him from exacting his own sick entrapment tactics on INNOCENT citizens ..... well i guess money and power corrupts ..... as Judd and company now have about HALF A MILLION reasons by now why they are running these stings the way they are .....
Table 2: Federal Grants to ICAC Task Force Agencies
State Agency FY 2010 FY 2011
Funding Funding
FL Broward County Sheriff’s Office $379,168 $391,665
FL Gainesville Police Department $318,164 $330,799
FL Polk County Sheriff's Office $380,287 $393,608
** taken from 'AN INTERIM REPORT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL' ~ mar 24th, 2013 **
** on page a-46 of the appendix: isnt it wierd that the complaint numbers skyrocket .... yet you go further down and the officer training numbers DROP ?? really ?? **
....my, my, my .... that DOES demonstrate a VERY POWERFUL motive as to why they are trying to entrap as many people as possible, now doesn't it??
so ... you think I'm angry??? your damn right Im ANGRY at this whole situation .... ANGRY at the FACT that people like Judd and Frank williams and Tom Knight KNOW FULL WELL that these stings are NOT being done correctly and that they are BLATENTLY NOT following the ICAC rules and ENTRAPPING people and then turning around and getting on the news and then just totally BESMIRCHING and DESTROYING those arrested entire lives ..... there is a REASON why the statistics from these types of cases about the fallout that happens after that like 85% of people intimidated into beoming social parriahs and scarred for life either kill themselves, or end up murdered in one way or another ... either while in jail, or by a vigilante on the outside with only half a brain and access to SO registry info/public records .... the only thing I can think of at this point was that .... even though Im agnostic ... this kind of seems like the 'the trial of Job' .... in which .... I kinda feel like I was 'put' into this situation in order to finally help EXPOSE THE CORRUPTION & MALFEASANCE and SHUT IT DOWN for good .... its the only rationale that I can find in this quagmire of crap thats been laid in my lap .... and my reason to FIGHT .... they are gonna have to SHOOT ME in open court before I give up ....
~ Reptile Dude
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reptiledudeSeptember 9, 2013 at 6:58 PM
oh yes i forgot .... TIMELINE .... met PD finally in mid-april after arraignment .... cae management in may .... she filed a property release motion in mid-july .... it was won and 2 out my 3 items were returned ... camera and 'modem' ... my work tools i do my job with that were STOLEN from me the night i was unjustly AMBUSHED in a public place ... score 1 for me i guess ... docket sounding is the 16th this coming monday .... 3 days later I have a motion to dismiss hearing .... she contacted a doctor for me to go see sim and 'talk to him and have him gauge my propensity' she called it .... waiting to hear back from him ... last time we talked when i got my stuff back she was talking about how some of her other cases didnt fair so well .... but they were explicit on the part of the defendant ... i have no such parameters .... she was talking about a possible probation and no registry deal .... i dunno about that .... seems like the beginning of intimidation to me .... trial is set for 30th sept but she and others have said its gonna go to a continuance anyway .... this other stuff needs to be done still .... there is SEVERAL files AND a video that are MISSING from my record .....exculpatory evidence ... ive been FLOODING my attorney with ALL of the info from this site .... ICAC ... accadri ... case law .... ryu nolin ... and some other info provided by people ( you know who).... obj/sub entrapment she gave me sent back in PDF with all my notes about violations on it .... i going to contact my 'guy' in washington about getting me a contact in the FBI to complain and open an investigation into what is going on down here ... im thinking of contacting Luo Ann Holland of OJJDP about this as well ... ... ive even wanted to go to the news with my sotry ... but someone told me like them, my case wasnt 'sensational' enough ... im waiting for that DCA decision to come rolling down the pipe in OUR FAVOR ... any day now ...
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john doeSeptember 9, 2013 at 8:05 PM
To all,
I will be at the Polk County Courthouse tomorrow. Is there anything that anyone needs me to look up?
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Kellie MyersSeptember 10, 2013 at 8:45 AM
Can you tell me where on the website I can find this training manual? I'm not finding it.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 10, 2013 at 12:07 PM
The MOU and procedures are not on here and you need both. The MOU shows the financial incentive. Email Talkn Stang for them. Thanks for the support!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 10, 2013 at 12:14 PM
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Kellie MyersSeptember 10, 2013 at 12:15 PM
Oh no problem I'm happy to support. My husband was involved in a sting. We've got our issues which I'm willing to workout but by no means do I believe that he is what they are trying to pin him as. Not when you're hook line and sinkering people on adult dating websites. We want to do our part at getting this changed. I just hope this helps us in some way. Thank you for responding.
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Kellie MyersSeptember 10, 2013 at 12:21 PM
Sorry one more question. Would you mind giving me Talkn Stang's email address?
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aladdinSeptember 10, 2013 at 1:29 PM
The training manual is not available, that is something that would have to be subpoenaed by your husband's attorney. The ICAC Operational and Investigative Standards along with the Memorandum of Understanding and other information for his attorney are available here:
ICAC OPERATIONAL AND INVESTIGATIVE STANDARDS AND FEDERAL LAW
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 10:16 AM
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 10:18 AM
my email is talknstang@yahoo.com
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john doeSeptember 10, 2013 at 3:18 PM
I was in court today in Polk County and my motions for suppression of evidence (for illegally searching my vehicle) and motion to compel the operational standards used in the sting has been pushed back to December 2013.
I'm still trying to figure out why this is all taking so long. Ive had these motions on the docket since January 2013. why does it take a year for a judge to hear a motion? I haven't even filed any motions for entrapment or other motions for dismissal. It's very frustrating.
I would encourage everyone who is going through this, whether you are the actual one accused or a family or friend of one who is accused to continue to fight these charges. My fight is going on three years and i'm just as determined as I was three years ago to fight these charges. You will have your bad days and days you feel like giving up but don't you do it. Keep fighting the fight.
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 10:15 AM
wow, that is very odd indeed. I would put some pressure on the state if I were you. Something is afoul for sure. Your attorney will know what to do, but there is no reason for those motions taking so damn long to be heard unless there is more to the story. Just be prepared for some stupid move from the state since your case is so old. I would file those motions for entrapment already to be on the safe side so get with your attorney on that ASAP. I am no attorney nor do i provide any type of legal service. All we do is make suggestions based on information/knowledge we already have on these operations. It is up to everyone to consult with their attorney's with that information to see if it is useful. Good to hear you are a fighter. Things are looking up indeed
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 10, 2013 at 3:21 PM
Things you will need for dismissal: 1. Subpoena the federal training manual and find the federal law it corresponds to. 2. The MOU and the procedures we already have and the corresponding federal code. (Remember these are federal operations performed by state agencies so a violation IS IMPORTANT since it's a matter of law.) 3. Case law both binding and persuassive. Jacobson :The gov taking advantage of the non-criminal motive of looking for sex online IS INDUCEMENT. Munoz: accessing the adult website posing as a minor creates the crime and not just the opportunity. Pamblanco: only statute 847.0135 considers belief as an element of the crime. Aguirre, Cosmo AND ALL OTHER CASES on the case law links page particularly Beattie and Farley. Don't leave anything out! This is not legal advice and we are not attorneys.
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Talkn StangSeptember 10, 2013 at 8:57 PM
well i just got a call from Georgia and it looks like CBS Atlanta has run their story. We can only hope we can make this happen here in Florida. We are working on it, trust me......i think this really helps us significantly
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23394028/fbi-agent-who-led-sex-crimes-task-force-under-investigation
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Talkn StangSeptember 10, 2013 at 11:09 PM
something i would like to mention that i have heard in a few cases about judges giving "downward departures" because law enforcement was the "aggressor" and/or they "steered the conversation". These above reasons for a downward departure are all violations of the ICAC standards. Not only that, but these are clear indicators that this was entrapment. It really disgusts me when i hear information like this, but it is happening. A complaint to the Judicial Qualification Commission should be filed on any judge that abuses his discretion in this manner, especially if there is no way to pursue an appeal.
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reptiledudeSeptember 11, 2013 at 5:16 PM
im filing a complaint against judge roberts if he does NOT grant my motion ..... my attorney said hes more than likely not going to because he is being a snake .... and has denied EVERYONE elses similar motions .....
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 6:07 PM
well apparently this Judge Roberts has some serious issues and needs someone to put him in his place. A complaint with the JQC can be a tool one can use to show a judges abuse of discretion, bias, or any other unethical issues a judge may show. If a pattern of abuses can be shown to be true, then i do believe a complaint is warranted. And even if not, perhaps it will be a wake up call for the judge! I think Judge Hankinson in Leon county somehow got the word about his evil courtroom ways and i heard he completely changed his tune with some of these sting related cases after being a jerk to many.
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM
My son just got nailed by hankinson he is awful .
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 7:16 AM
ok people, i am going to offer some advice...i am not an attorney, but it would be best to consult with your attorney to see if this information i will post can be used to help your case......if there are clear ICAC violations, eg. law enforcement steering the conversation, law enforcement is the aggressor, etc. have your attorney look into filing a motion to compel disclosure of operational plan. We have seen some good results after this motion was filed, and now that we are making progress with these ICAC standards, this is great timing to do this. Get with your attorney and if you need the specific case information showing this motion being of use, we can provide that as well.
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reptiledudeSeptember 11, 2013 at 5:14 PM
i need that info man ....please send ...you know where ....
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john doeSeptember 11, 2013 at 9:47 PM
My motion to compel the operational plan has a hearing date of December 2013
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM
great job. That is awesome. I totally expect much to change before december, but the best defense in these stings is having a great offensive strategy. Filing these motions is going on the offensive. We are sending a message to Florida that we are not going to take this crap any more. Before, they would just laugh in our faces, but look who is laughing now!
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 10:26 AM
also, i totally expect more to be coming out from CBS Atlanta about those operations and i can now talk a bit more about it now that the story has been aired. I am aware of that reporter interviewing other attorneys and defendants for as many as 2 hours about their cases, but that info was not a part of that story yet. We can only hope that CBS will follow up on this and show other violations of the ICAC standards. Florida is next...mark my word! We have worked too long and too hard to let this opportunity pass us by and go unnoticed.
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 10:29 AM
for those of you who have not read the "horror stories" in the back of my presentation, you need to!
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 1:13 PM
i just got word of a Florida case that just concluded at trial with the jury quickly coming back with a "not guilty" verdict on all charges. From the info i received, the case was classic entrapment and this guy was seriously railroaded by law enforcement. But being that the judge was anything but helpful, they decided to leave it for a jury to decide with great results. These cases are very winnable at trial even if an unruly judge denies an entrapment motion. The good news is coming in much faster now.
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 11, 2013 at 1:17 PM
Do you have the case name and what county it was in?
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 12, 2013 at 1:41 PM
Yes we need the case name that will help others.
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 11, 2013 at 2:57 PM
I found a great article about these stings and alot of it rings very true in all of our cases
https://www.americanbar.org/newsletter/publications/gp_solo_magazine_home/gp_solo_magazine_index/colleluori.html
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM
Yea, i have seen that site before and it does have some good info. But now is the time to focus on these ICAC standards as well as entrapment motions. EVERYBODY NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR ATTORNEY FILE MOTIONS TO COMPEL DISCLOSURE OF THE OPERATIONAL PLAN if they have clear violations of the rules in their cases. If the judge denies this then attorneys need to bust out with the subsections under Title 42 US CODE that pertain to the ICAC rules. These rules must be adhered to and for a judge to disallow the use of these rules is a serious abuse of discretion. I am no attorney nor do i provide a legal service. The info we post should be reviewed by any attorneys who are qualified in making an assessment in relation to their cases. GIT-R-DONE!
As far as the jury trial acquittal, ill get that info out shortly, i am working some other things with the attorney in that case at the moment. It has been a very good day for the cause
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 3:57 PM
The reason why you want to focus on these ICAC standards is because the media will more than likely be exposing more violations and that will work in everyones favor. They will uncover more than just using untrained civilians during those operations and when the public is made aware of this, we will have much success. We really have to be excited about what is to come!
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 8:48 PM
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Talkn StangSeptember 11, 2013 at 8:53 PM
ok, this is kinda different. Hmmmm
http://baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/9/9/_24_arrested_in_area.html
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 12, 2013 at 1:45 PM
Yes that is very different that what they should be doing. That is proactive investigation. Not what they did to us.
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 12, 2013 at 2:41 PM
I just hope they don't try to say the stings do really work and that one is the prime example of why they should do more around the state, including the ones where they use adult sites. I am worried that this sting gives them a blank check
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Talkn StangSeptember 13, 2013 at 10:24 AM
we also must remember that the truth is not always reported to the media by law enforcement. Media only reports information that is given to them. What they can and cannot disclose is discussed in the Op Manual. I wouldnt worry about that sting giving them a "blank check" because that "blank check" will be returned for "insufficient funds" soon enough.
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Talkn StangSeptember 13, 2013 at 11:45 AM
I just wanted to let everyone know that WE WON MY APPEAL ON ENTRAPMENT. WE HAVE OUR APPELLATE COURT VICTORY. IT IS OFFICIAL. I will post more later, there is much work to do
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john doeSeptember 13, 2013 at 2:08 PM
Congratulations on a well earned victory!
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 13, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Talkn that is great news.. Congratulation.. Can you explain what that means now for you and for us? Can you send the documents related to this so out lawyers can maybe use some of the info.. Thanks..!
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Talkn StangSeptember 13, 2013 at 4:55 PM
Thank you. It has been an emotional day for sure, but i want everyone to know that this is just the beginning and as i have stated before, this is not just about me. It is so much bigger than that. The best is yet to come so hang in there everybody, it is going to get interesting
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 14, 2013 at 11:09 AM
The decision and documentation by the DCA Judges For Stang is available online. I found it on google. 2 judges concurred and 1 judge dissented. I knew the 1 Female judge would concur just because of the questions she was asking during the hearing. I will Let Stang post the link
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 12:18 PM
I am just now carefully reviewing every part of this opinion. The dissenting opinion is more of a procedural issue in the mind of that particular judge. When there are no facts in dispute and predisposition is not in question, the trial judge can rule on entrapment as a matter of law. This appellate judge apparently thinks that there are disputed facts and the issue of entrapment should have been for a jury to decide.
The biggest question I am trying to find out is whether or not the appellate court could have found that i was entrapped objectively. In my opinion, the threshold test for objective entrapment was clearly met but the motion to dismissed was filed subjectively. If that panel had applied the objective test to my case, then the dissenting opinion would have been a moot point. And even if the state tries to argue the decision by filing a motion for rehearing, they will be wasting their time
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 12:22 PM
I just reviewed the case below and we need to get this info out to include with entrapment motions.
FUTCH v. STATE
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19921746596So2d1150_11452
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM
Stang where can we get your case law online? I want to show to my lawyer. Thanks
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 2:29 PM
it is at 1dca.org under newest written opinions
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 14, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Here is the link
http://opinions.1dca.org/written/opinions2013/09-13-2013/12-3407.pdf
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 3:58 PM
that would be it, lol.....it is public info, nothing i can do about that
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 14, 2013 at 5:17 PM
yup.... If you google your name and an appeal, it pops up as number 1
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 6:20 PM
lol, what can i say? i like to be #1, lmao I just want everyone to know I have been hard at it day in and day out for a long damn time. This is just the beginning, and although i cannot reveal too much, i can tell you that things are looking really good for the cause right now and that has me even more excited than this 1stDCA ruling to be honest!
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Talkn StangSeptember 14, 2013 at 6:27 PM
the outpouring of support that i have received about this decision has been amazing. I have received emails/calls from numerous attorneys, friends, family, my media contacts, and even the local ACLU, congratulating me and even DuePro got all choked up on the phone. We are doing this thing....we will succeed.
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freedom070476September 15, 2013 at 6:35 AM
For Talkin Stang, congratulations on your Appellate Court victory. We're all glad to see a success. You mentioned on September 11 a recent Florida court case where the jury rendered a not guilty verdict. Do you have the Case # and jurisdiction? This could help many other cases. Thanks.
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reptiledudeSeptember 15, 2013 at 7:01 AM
Awesome!!! Yes we will :-) im hoping that my dismissal hearing on thursday goes the same way :-) everyone who has read it has agreed that with the facts presented in it, it is a no-brainer that my case should be dismissed. It is elementary as well as flagrantly OBVIOUS that I was entrapped and 'led by the nose with a cattle prod to my ass' in my case. It would be an extremely abusive waste of taxpayer money as well as jurors time and resources, and a gross injustice to bring my case to a trial. There is absolutely NO need for it. She did extremely well writing my motion up. Everything is included, subjective and objective, the flagrant violations of the ICAC standards, and now also the sworn deposition of the 2 officers as well stating that the broke the federal rules with extreme prejudice, and without caring about doing so..... Ouch. ... Its gonna be a rough day at the office for a few people once they have to answer for what they have done, and im gonna get the last laugh :-) ....
... BTW that not guilty case was in Sarasota..... Im working on procuring the info.... My attorney sat in the courtroom and observed for strategies to use in my trial if it goes that far. ... Here is to believing it shouldnt, and doesnt :-)
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aladdinSeptember 15, 2013 at 8:18 AM
I believe the acquittal was Jason Michael Palmer arrested in Sarasota County in March of this year. I think it was a single arrest rather than being part of a sting operation
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 15, 2013 at 9:23 AM
http://courtweb.co.sarasota.fl.us/crimapp/crimdetail.asp?case_id=93994154
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aladdinSeptember 15, 2013 at 11:20 AM
Thanks Prince!
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Talkn StangSeptember 15, 2013 at 5:27 PM
and for the Jothilingam and Maniscalco cases on appeal by the state, you do not have anything to worry about now. Little do they know about this decision that will affirm the lower courts decision on entrapment in your cases. Both of these cases were actually cited in my appeal as well reasoned. The state just wasted precious time and resources arguing those decisions because they will lose!
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Talkn StangSeptember 15, 2013 at 7:08 PM
"The law does not tolerate government action to provoke a law-abiding citizen to commit a crime in order to prosecute him or her with that crime." In my opinion, this is the most important statement made in the decision with "provoke" being the keyword. This should apply to all other related cases. Why the courts have not done so thus far is beyond belief, but this is correct ruling is a start!
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Justice MyersSeptember 15, 2013 at 11:28 PM
Once again congratulations TalknStang we're happy for you.
I'm trying to save the opinion but I don't know how, can anyone help me with that?
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aladdinSeptember 16, 2013 at 5:43 AM
Right click on the link and select the save as option. It'll be Save Target as or Save link as depending on what browser you're using
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reptiledudeSeptember 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Im just getting back from court.... Sounding was today .... My dismissal hearing is scheduled for Thursday afternoon..... I wanted to report on a few things..... First off I wanted to confirm that, YES, it was the Jason Palmer case that was heard and acquitted in Sarasota..... I confirmed it with my attorney when I saw her today..... and Trey, my man, your famous :-) ..... I mentioned your appeal victory and she told me that she already knew about it... It hit EVERY court in the state on Friday...... She plans on using it in my dismissal hearing, along with the title 42 US CODE..... She also said, however, that it is not binding, so the judge is not bound by it in sarasota county..... it IS, however, massively persuasive in convincing the judge that dismissal is the right path to take in my case..... As it also affirms and strengthens the Maniscalo and Jothilingam decisions as well..... Just like you said :-) Score one for the home team! !! :-) She is confidently hopeful that, given the facts of my case, the judge should see reason and the fervor behind your victory appeal and rule in my favor, as a matter of law..... If he doesnt, she is adament that if its taken to trial, that the state will lose, there are several black and white flagrant ICAC violations in my case, and using everything that I have armed her with, a jury should come to the same 'not guilty' conclusion. .... Then its GAME ON!!!!! heres to a successful CORRECT outcome in my case on thursday. .... and then END of my nightmare. ..... Please pray for me, everyone. .... When I get my dismissal, I promise I WILL KEEP FIGHTING FOR EVERYONE. ...... until this ILLEGAL injustice. ...... is finally put to rest :-)
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Talkn StangSeptember 16, 2013 at 7:34 PM
Well i'll take famous over infamous any day at this point, but i am not sure if famous is what i'd call it. I would like to think i was more "dedicated" than anything, lol. Good things are in the near future and this really opens up doors/options for many. Reptiledude, i've read your information and reviewed your motions and you are sitting in a very good position at this time. Make sure you thank your attorney...a little "thanks" here and there really goes a long way. I called the bossed of both my PD's informing them of how pleased i was with my representation. Without their help, who knows where i'd be right now!?
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 16, 2013 at 9:22 PM
I was talking to my lawyer today regarding my case which was only a single charge of soliciting with no travel. It is blatant entrapment. I was offered a plea deal of 21 months in prison with a lifetime of sex offender crap. My lawyer told me that if I turned down the deal, the prosecuting attory would ammend my charges to make it look worse. Well, I turned down the ridiculous deal and I found out today that instead of the single charge of soliciting, the prosecuting attorney now has turned it into 4 charges of soliciting. She did this because I turned down the deal and it pissed her off. And she thinks that now I will look worse in hopes that one of the charges will stick. So now, if you refuse a deal the prosecuting attorny now throws a temper tantrum and turns to corruption and violating a persons rights. The prosecuting attornys name is Christine Utt of the 2nd judicial circuit court in tallahassee. I am pretty sure she is following the fiine Example of good ole corrupt politician Willie Megs.
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aladdinSeptember 16, 2013 at 10:35 PM
What a crock! Quadruple jeopardy? Realistically if all of the communications were part of the same criminal episode they will have to drop the extra ones. I can't think of appropriate case law off the top of my head but they can't stack charges like that because of double jeopardy. There would need to be an extended break in communications of more than just overnight before an identical charge can stick.
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Justice MyersSeptember 17, 2013 at 12:23 AM
Wow that's blatant blackmail/intimidation, and it's sad, and UNLAWFUL. When prosecutors do things like this to me it reeks that they're afraid and they'll literally try anything. Don't worry, you have her right where you want her.
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john doeSeptember 17, 2013 at 9:22 AM
A similar event happened to me too. Early on the prosecutor dropped two of my charges but when I refused all the plea deals and filed a motions to compel the standards and to suppress the evidence he brought refiled one of the charges.
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM
Well the Prosecuting attorney did say to my attorney that If i turned down the deal that the consequences will be added charges. Apparently this is a legal procedure for these types of charges In case there was an egregious amount of child porn or other crap that harms children. However, they are taking advantage of that rule and using on every minor thing in order to get a conviction no matter what. I said a couple of derogatory things without sending any pictures, after being prompted on an adult website. No Travel, no texting etc. They traveled 2 hours to where I work on a military base after illegally tracking my cell phone without a warrant to locate me.
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 17, 2013 at 3:16 PM
I guess the bottom line is that to me it is highly unethical to threaten and intimidate people with more charges if they don't take the deal offered. Why didn't they just do the extra charges 2 years ago when they came and illegally arrested me? Again, this lawyer hates to lose and she is throwing a tantrum because she can't get her way.
Is Intimidation and Threatening from the Prosecuting Attorney Illegal and if so does anyone have a case precedent?
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4evermomSeptember 17, 2013 at 9:46 AM
Thats why my son is sitting in jail on a plea deal. From what I can tell POOR attorney representation along with threats and intimidation from our legal system...AKA state prosecutors..As a mom I will never give up hope! Right now thats all I ve.......
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 17, 2013 at 4:23 PM
The recent 1st DCA decision IS BINDING IN ALL TRIAL COURTS ACROSS THE STATE because the 1st DCA is above the trial level! IT ONLY BECOMES PERSUASIVE DURING APPEAL!
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aladdinSeptember 17, 2013 at 5:56 PM
I think what reptiledude meant was it isn't binding yet because it hasn't been mandated and won't be until after the time for filing a motion for rehearing has passed. His motion to dismiss is on Thursday and the 1st DCA decision won't be mandated by then so it won't be binding for his hearing.
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 7:00 PM
right now that decision is not binding, but it is complelling and can still be used in any Florida sting related case! Now it will be binding before too much longer thus making it precedent!
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cb86bd1e-200e-11e3-a525-000bcdcb8a73September 17, 2013 at 8:03 PM
My son who was 20 at the time was one of the male entrapped in the operation spider web. He was charged with travel to meet a minor with 5 probation as sex offender.
I had read your blog and sent my son lawyer a link to your appeal case outline. I was hopeful that we would have a chance appeal but he responded my the government had prior communications between my son and undercover agent. I do not understand?
I am hopeful that a time will come where justice can be done.....
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 17, 2013 at 4:43 PM
That means stanf decicion can be used on other motions to dismiss?
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 5:52 PM
VERY IMPORTANT! ALERT! Do yourselves a big favor everyone. Go through your discovery and cite every instance of any ICAC Op Standard/MOU violation there is. Either highlight it or document it separately. Entrapment as a matter of law is no basis for any type of civil rights case you might have apparently, but police misconduct is! It is the police misconduct that leads to being entrapped, but i am working on getting a civil rights attorney to understand that entrapment as a matter of law is not the claim i am wanting to pursue. I will post additional info as i learn/find out more. We havn't really gotten to this point yet, so we are charting new territory so to speak!
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john doeSeptember 18, 2013 at 5:43 AM
I was just reading up on civil lawsuit last night talkn stang and you're right. From what I got out of my research, police misconduct is a civil claim that is worthy of exploring. The kicker is to show multiple instances of the misconduct.
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 17, 2013 at 7:36 PM
My son got sentenced today 42 months we tried everything hes young and had no clue what he was doing was on Craigslist we need help going to appeal. He has no offenses never got in trouble his whole life help me save him
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cb86bd1e-200e-11e3-a525-000bcdcb8a73September 17, 2013 at 8:20 PM
My son is in the same situation sentence 60 month first offense under age went to craig list.
Please help us save our sons from a lifetime sentenced
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 17, 2013 at 9:33 PM
I feel your pain this is not justice!
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 11:00 PM
wow, gosh....words cannot even describe the amount of pain i am sure you have endured. I am so sorry for the both of you and for your sons. If you comb back through the blog an posts that myself and other have made, you will find plenty of information on what your attorneys might and might not be able to do given the circumstances of each case. Without knowing details, it is hard to compare those situations to others that we are aware of. The most important thing is to have an attorney that is working for you and not against you!
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 8:11 PM
feel free to chime in here......this kind of bullshit and ignorance cannot be tolerated. I have good comments that are awaiting moderation.
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Edwin_Gennette_5601287/#c5t_form
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 18, 2013 at 6:15 AM
You got a pretty strong response back on your posts.... they are on the second page
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 9:10 AM
they obviously have not posted the comments i made some time ago. They will be interesting to read for sure, lol
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 18, 2013 at 10:00 AM
I saw a few post that you did withing the last couple of days. There are three pages of posts now. I even posted the other day, right after the Decision
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 17, 2013 at 9:31 PM
Been watching this and taking it in just need help save our kids
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 10:39 PM
can you elaborate please? we appreciate you keeping an eye on the blog....can you explain what you mean by helping save our kids?
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Talkn StangSeptember 17, 2013 at 10:56 PM
oops, sorry, i did not read the above posts and now i understand. Jenn, if you would like to email me at talknstang@yahoo.com and tell me more, that would be fine. What i can say here is that all hope is not lost quite yet, although it would have been nice to catch this in time before any sentence was handed down.
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 10:15 AM
here's an article on the Palmer case......http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20130916/COLUMNIST/130919667/2055/NEWS?p=2&tc=pg
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 10:25 AM
this article is awesome. Now all that needs to be done is file a complaint with the OJJDP using that article as proof that they are in violation of the ICAC standards and their funding should be revoked...or at least they need to look into this problem. Another mistake by unsavory government conduct. Thank you Mr. Prosecutor...thank you for handing us that on a silver platter
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 10:39 AM
i would like to know this now. Even more interesting is the fact that this LEO had taken an actual picture of her "cleavage" at the age of 17! Why is a minor taking those type of photos and then using them in an undercover investigation? hmmm They really hosed up good here. Thank you Mr. Lyons, i knew i could count on you, lol
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 18, 2013 at 11:17 AM
The picture of the breast they are talking about is a lie! It takes four years to become a cop and then an ICAC investigator and why would a woman hold onto a picture of her breast for that long when she looks at them every day? If that statement is true then the police are recruiting juvinile delinquents that produce child porn to later create crime so they can make an arrest for these stings! That means instead of thinking of ways to catch real internet predators they are getting ever so complex and sophisticated in their methods to create them. Well I call BS because cops are not that smart and hardly ever think that far ahead. That breast was either the picture of an adult, one of the teens that willingly produce child porn for federal agents because she got paid, or a download off the internet.
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Nope, you are incorrect. It is of a minor showing cleavage! I have been informed by the attorney in this case that that is the fact!
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Brian RSeptember 18, 2013 at 5:04 PM
Congrats Stang. From the bottom of my heart I thank you, applaud you, and commend you. You fought for your rights, and honestly you did not have to. You got a great deal compared to almost everybody, but if you just took the deal and didn't fight back, I would not be able to use your appeal for my case. That is what America is about. The grey imbetween right or wrong is so emotionally tangled. These cases are emotional ones. When you are innocent and not a pedo, you got fight. And you fought, and you taught us to fight, and you give us hope that America can change for the better. No one really grasps that over thousand people are being bullied to not fight and take a deal, and have the rest of their lives ruined.
You MADE A DENT, a ripple in a large mass of water that will turn into a wave. I will never forget you and appreciate your help by your actions and taking time to talk to me and help my lawyer. This very moment reminds me of Cloud Atlas movie. watch it. Change is hard to make and come by, change is good.
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personSeptember 18, 2013 at 6:18 PM
...minority report.
is somebody going to trial soon?
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aladdinSeptember 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM
I believe there's an evidentiary hearing tomorrow. Will that work?
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personSeptember 18, 2013 at 7:45 PM
there's some crucial content i have that i want people to submit into their evidence/exhibits; it's what i used in mine and the prosecution accepted it so it is legit. anyone interested, talk to me at person@dubcube.com
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 10:06 PM
i will vouch for this "person", lol
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 5:56 AM
what is it ??? i want to know .... ill use it .....
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 7:28 PM
another great day for the cause indeed!
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 9:02 PM
i posted a few comments on the Palmer article for all to enjoy
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Talkn StangSeptember 18, 2013 at 9:25 PM
and Palmer, if somehow you read this comment, do the right thing....go public with your story. I know your attorney backs you and you will have tons of support. you cannot be afraid of facing the media with your story because the damage has already been done. Now it is time to undo it. I have already set things up as I am sure you are already aware of that. The reporter you will be working with is there to help the cause, and he has a plan that will help to expose the truth. Your victory is a great opportunity to let the public know that this type of illicit police conduct cannot be tolerated and something needs to be done. This story would be much bigger than the HeraldTribune, but that is a start! There are many innocent men in prison that are counting on you my friend!
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 19, 2013 at 10:48 AM
I believe he is a Military member and may not be allowed to speak to the media about the ordeal.
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:30 AM
you know, i never considered that. Oops. I am not sure how the military has handled his situation. If he was home for leave for only 30 days, then it appears he never made it back to Korea. I do believe that Korea is still only a 1yr hardship tour and he could have been coming back on leave halfway through that. But if he was in transition to a new assignment, that would be a different story. Ok, just looking up his case, he was arrested 18 Mar 2013 and bonded out the next day. Nearly 2 months later, the state filed a motion to revoke the bond and he was subsequently taken into custody. I am not sure what the reasoning was, but it looks like he did bond back out. It appears to me that he has been around the area perhaps through this whole ordeal and if so, i would think he might have been discharged. I will see if i can get that information!
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scaredmommaSeptember 19, 2013 at 5:26 AM
my son withdrew his plea,and was going to trial,hankinson allowed state to add an additional soliciting charge the day of trial,he had 1 for soliciting and one for traveling,so at trial he had 2soliciting and one traveling,judge also allowed state to add 3 tiny postage size clips of suspected cp,havent heard anymore about it,we know its not cp.we gave my sons attorney website it was from,state was shown it,was pissed it clearly showed woman,not kid,but disallowed video,but entered clips to jury,state hammered jury in her final statement about my son ,saying to jury he would say" want a piece of candy little girl"she said this over 15times to jury,they were out 52minutes,of course he was found guilty,he got 63monthsplus 12month sex offender probation,and lifetime registry.we are waiting on appeal now,hes in prison,has been in their since may,was in jail since february-they took his bond away in february.he stayed in jail till trial in may,and nobody will get visitation with their kids in prison,its state law,with the charges they got ,it states no contact with anyone under 18.we just found this out,after we were told otherwise in court.
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 6:19 AM
my dismissal hearing is TODAY .... and I got an 11th hour call last night from my PD from her home .....the state wants to make a deal now ..... no jail, no registry, just probation prolly around 4 years, with early termination halfway through, no unsupervised contact with anyone under 18, and i CANT have the dismissal hearing basically locking in this conviction with no chance of appeal, and they also want the password to my phone to check it for CP .... i dont know the exact particulars of it ..... because she didnt know either, or rather she told me that ... .... she was asked to call me to see if there was interest she says ... she is telling me to take the deal .... "this is the deal that I have been fighting for for everyone im representing .... i wouldnt tell you that if i didnt think it was the right thing, i care about my clients" .... im not sure what the stipulations are but i feel like im getting intimidated and forced into taking it .... alot of which has to do with my animals ... my family has all but abandoned me and i dont have anywhere to take them .... 25 snakes, 2 lizards, my service dog .... THAT is my real family .... not the human that is left i share blood with (brother) .... the rest of my family are ALL dead .... both parents and grandparents ... "the judge is going to deny our motion today and im ready to go to trial, however, im not sure if I can find 6 people in Sarasota who will NOT find you guilty ... and you will be going to prison if that happens ... the ICAC violations dont matter, because the judge will NOT allow any of that to be heard at trial .... he has been barring everything about that at a trial, and your phone calls are going to do you in .... with this deal, you will not go to jail, and you will be able to care for your animals, and do your job in Ybor .... yadda yadda " .....ive been told by people who have been on probation that it wont matter what they say in court or stipulate, probation WILL shut it down and then ill be homeless or end up getting violated and go to jail anyway .... i dont really know what to do .... im getting told now by my PD like as if she is scared of the judge and believes that ill be found guilty if we go to a trial .... and we are NOT ready because she did not file all the motions i told her to file ....there were no subpoenas filed either for my character witnesses ALOT of the work that i asked of her and flooded her with was NOT done .... im stressing out over this bad .... hopefully i dont have a seizure on the way there and crash and kill myself ....
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john doeSeptember 19, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Wow, that's a really good plea deal...just be sure of the fine details before if you decide to accept it. Be sure it is spelled out explicitly what they are verbally saying it expresses. You may even have to check what your PD is saying too as it seem they would rather you take a deal than to fight it out. Your PD may be willing to for-go some of your rights just to seal the deal. Also think about the charge they are asking you to plead guilty to...
I would question why the prosecutor is willing to give such a good deal? I'm sure it's because they have a weak case against you. Perhaps the judge will allow a continuance so that you can review the plea deal they are offering.
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InsanejusticeSeptember 20, 2013 at 10:01 AM
to reptiledude
17 minutes agoDetails
I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I am even more sorry that your family has all but deserted you. I just cannot understand how those who love you can do this , but somehow they do. You MUST keep fighting! While I am still learning everything-and some of it is too late for my son, I adamately stand behind him. And for you mothers out there... We do know who we raised. Don't let anyone tell you different! My son is already in prison fighting all the life consequences that entails! But I am a woman of faith and I pray for each and everyone of you every day. I want my own son home-immediately and I want those that should never have been there to begin with out of there as of yesterday. They worked so hard to make my son's sentence longer that they messed up his scoresheet. they charged him for his offences 4 days before the so- called crime was committed . We are still checking to see if this can help us. Look over everything they do! Get all your paperwork! Don't let them intimidate you. But if all else fails remember that there are those out here that have valuable assets in those horrible places and we will not stop until they are free! And that my sir does include you. Because you have become a part of this family.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 19, 2013 at 3:04 PM
If a prosecutor refuses to offer a plea deal if you try to dismiss the case then it is illegal because that induces you to plea and violates due process. In fact THE PLEA ITSELF IS ILLEGAL AND VIOLATES DUE PROCESS! The only thing that makes a plea legal is your signature. What law enforcement do during these stings is illegal particularly because they are posing as a minor interested in sex on an adult site which not only creates the crime but implants the criminal dispositon. The procedural violations and violations of federal law just help make the argument. The Beattie case teaches us that no matter what we do in the presence of a cop, if the cop had no reason to approach you particularly when he does not even know who you are then you were objectively entrapped as a matter of law. Beattie IMEDIATELY took the opportunity to order CP but because of the random ad placement and the CP was manufactured by LE, HIS CONVICTION WAS OVERTURNED. That is the same scenario here and prosecutors and LE know this.
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 7:06 PM
problem is im getting told that i would be spending that time in PRISON until the whole appeals process gets together and everything .... this is what im getting told .... and my animals will suffer the consequences because there is NO ONE who is willing to take care of them .... not even my family .... they both turned their back on me .... and could give 2 sh*ts and a waffle about me at all .... that is the most heartbreaking of this whole thing
.... at that point i might as well put a bullet in my skull because i will have nothing to live for at that point .... my life will be ruined .... its already hard enough to be able to work ....i do my reptiles in ybor because I have a service aniumal and in this assinine right to work state .... NO ONE will hire me to do anything ... because they dont HAVE to .... the federal JAN... job accomidations network ...states that in an employment situation ... it is the complete discretion of the EMPLOYER if they WANT to reasonably accomidate me ... and in the last 3 1/2 years .... NO ONE is willing to .... ive had people THROW OUT my application IN FRONT OF ME before i even walk out the door .... so my reptile rescue is my very way of life and being able to sustain myself ...if it werent for that id be homelss and broke by now ... and prolly back in jail as i couldnt of made the trips to sarasota for appearances ...i live alone with NO help from anyone ...i have no GF ... no REAL friends willing to actually HELP me .... and because of this BULLSH*T ... NO FAMILY either since they have essentially turned their backs on me .... im already contemplating checking out as it is .... this is totally unfair and WRONG ..... i shouldnt be made to feel this way .... which is EXACTLY what they are doing ....im feeling that my PD isnt so much in my camp anymore ....
im really feeling the only real free way out of this ....is a bullet to the head .... ;(
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:49 AM
I still do not understand why people are not using an appellate bond to keep them out of jail pending appeal.(i know money can be a factor, my original bond was set at $300000.00, but reduced to $75000.00 and i was sentenced to the charge which had only a $5000.00 bond. My appellate bond was based on that one charge, so i had to pay $500.00) Although i had to go through the appellate court because the damn trial judge initially denied mine, my appellate bond was finally granted and anyone can use that information from my motion for appellate bond to avoid having to go the same route i did if they intend on filing a notice of appeal in their case. The appellate bond is an important tool that needs to be used in these cases that isn't. The problem i found was that trial lawyers/PD's are just not too familiar with the process because it is not requested often, but we now know exactly how it is done and i only had to do 6 months of my sentence until my appellate bond was finally granted! I won both my motion to for appellate bond and my appeal on entrapment. Remember, we have seen just about every scenario that the state throws at people and we can get information out to your attorney's that could help. You just have to use that information to your advantage
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Brian RSeptember 19, 2013 at 4:52 PM
reptile dude. DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED. The more you fought the more you keep winning, notice that!!? If you dont know what to do ask the judge for more time to consider the deal. Once you take the deal you can not appeal it without a motion for entrapment. If the probation is community control sex probation, even though you are not on the list, you do have to follow the rules of the list. No internet access really unless judge permits, no porn at all, cant live or WORK near children per county codes. Depending on county you can have house arrest or GPS. Violation will throw you in PRISON not jail.
If it is normal felony probation, and the it is adjudicated, they you are not considered a convicted felon who has to register with the county every year.
There are a lot of questions you need to have answered before you make this decision, buy time, so your lawyer can do the work.
People understand this. The prosecutors and the your defense attorneys are afraid of these cases, because they have no experience at them on both ends. Most people are too scared to fight. Yet all the people that fight I know of have gotten better deals, hands down, and some free.
4 cases I know of have been found innocent or thrown out due to entrapment or just plainly thrown out.
Prosecutors, Judges are learning this entrapment because innocent people like you are being punished. It will keep conitnuing until people fight it to prove it wrong.
Just cause you do your motion, does not mean the day before the trial they offer you a same deal if you lose your motions. Then you can least appeal while on probation.
Discuss this with your lawyer.
If the judge knows you have deal to consider, the judge will GIVE you time to consider it and not be intimidated about it, BUT THE JUDGE HAS TO KNOW THAT. READ THE DEAL, it asks if you are being intimidated. Feel free to say Judge I feel intimidated, because I am being told what happens if I dont take the deal, but I have not had time to understand the repercussions of taking the deal. The judge will give you and your attorney more time.
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 6:47 PM
they WILL not make the deal unless i DONT pursue the motion to dismiss hearing .... those are their stipulations ..... period .... its either take the deal or go to prison .... its f'n bullsh*t
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 7:50 PM
it just seems like ive run out of time or options either .... this is my only way out and i had better just swallow it like a good boy and take your lumps ..... or get beat up, rear admiral-ed or killed in prison .... your choice .... what in the FU*K kind of choice is THAT ??? it makes me SO ANGRY ..... my HELLACIOUS IRE is welling up over this .... i feel powerless to do anything about it ....ive been fighting SO hard and its like NONE of it matters
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reptiledudeSeptember 20, 2013 at 5:57 AM
i got told this morning that if i show ANY hesitation at all ... eYikes ....that he will deny the deal and then we will go to trial NOT completely ready to do so .... I have to be totally willing with no questions or hesitation at all in order to have the deal accepted .... it seems like they are ALL trying to use intimidation on me to MAKE me do what THEY want, NOT what is just or right ..... they dont care about the law, all they care about is frying my ass to the wall any and every way that they can
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 6:24 PM
the hearing got CANCELED today .... i wasnt allowed to go thru with the hearing if i was interested in the deal .... i told my attorney my terms ... NO JAIL .... NO REGISTRY .... regular probation ONLY .... able to use the internet ..... able to travel outside of county .... NO community control .... NO curfew .... basically that my life would return to normal except that i have to go visit someone once a month an give them 50 bucks ..... that is IT .... oh and a sex eval that i know ill ace no problem .... treatment only if they deem it necessary .... which they wont ..... they are dropping the travel charge and amending the use computer charge to 3rd deg. child abuse ..... that was the deal i got .... they just want to check my phone out to make sure there is no CP on it ..... which there isnt .... there is some porn pics from fake ads from CL or whatever ... but what guy doesnt have those??? oh yes and medical photos i took of my junk to show to a doctor my 'condition' .... i got an STD from my Ex- GF which surfaced and showed itself in november '12 .... BEFORE this crap happened to me in Feb.'13 .... and then everything will be fine .... i had to give up my password to it .... and then i should hear something back from them tonight or tomorrow about my phone .... and id get everything they took from me back next week .... phone, tablet, and everything else ..... basically she told me im their worst case .... thats why they are making a deal .... there is good arguments on my side .... but they also have a shot at conviction too ..... i was told the judge WILL deny the motion if it is heard .... and at a trial .... he WILL NOT allow anything in about the standards .... or ICAC ..... or federal law concerning entrapment ..... or ANYTHING ..... and moving for a mistrial when we object to the compelling of the standards and he denies it .... that more than likely that he would not grant a mistrial .... and that he would NOT recuse himself either .... because he feels/thinks he is in the right and he will have done nothing wrong ... basically i would get a big F. U. to anything and everything i would try to do .... im basically being shoved into a corner even though i know the FEDERAL LAW is on my side .... apparently NONE of that matters in Robert's courtroom .... he does what he wants like he is GOD ALMIGHTY INCARNATE and to hell with the law or whats right .... apparently in sarasota, he is ABOVE THE LAW .... even FEDERAL LAW ... BULLSH*T .... ive done WAY too much sleepless nights of research to NOT know the TRUTH .... which is EXACTLY what they are afraid of getting out .... hence why they are colluding together to block EVERY attempt to make it come out .... because im NOT rich and dont have the likes of a KEVIN HAYSLETT or a similar $25,000 attorney representing me .... because my stepfather is more interested in buying harleys for himself and taking vacations on my dead mothers half million dollar life insurance policy ... i got basically thrown to the wolves by him .... he bailed me out and then told me ' you are on your own' .... even though he was told by MANY people that it would be a DEATH SENTENCE if he did so .... he doesnt care and thinks im guilty basically ... apparently Roberts is mega bias against these types of cases .... youre guilty once you enter the courtroom ..... and NOTHING you do will compel him otherwise .... its bullsh*t .... how is THAT fair or impartial at all ???
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 6:25 PM
HELP GUYS .... what should I do ?? ..... she is telling me 42 months if i get convicted and she says it is very unlikely that a 'not guilty' will come out of my case because the judge has done EVERYTHING in ALL of these cases to completely stack the deck against the defendant .... again as if the DA/prosecutor and the judge are colluding/conspiring together so that EVERYONE who comes through the court on 847.0315 charges has NO chance of getting anything but 'guilty' or take a sh*t deal that you dont really want .... again unless youre RICH and have a $25,000 attorney .... those indigent with a PD .... get fu*ked dry with no lube ....how is THAT justice?? how is that fair at all??? oh f*ck me this is complete bullsh*t ....
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aladdinSeptember 19, 2013 at 7:12 PM
Just some thoughts.
What's the appeal reversal record for your judge?
If you don't take the deal, do everything you possibly can preserving every issue for appeal.
Be prepared to file a motion for a sentencing bond and an appellate bond if you go to trial and are found guilty.
I hate to say it but you should not have given them the password to your phone. Many of the fake ad pics are actually tagged as "teen" and "young" or are provided by content providers with domain names containing young or teen. Even though it can be proven the pics are absolutely legal the state will call them "suspected child pornography"
How does this judge justify not allowing federal law to be cited in his courtroom? Does your attorney know? Maybe if we knew the basis we could find a way to defeat that too.
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reptiledudeSeptember 19, 2013 at 8:18 PM
i got my ARM TWISTED about it .... I was told by my PD the deal with the judge is just that is how he is ..... i dont really know .... she doesnt know either .... she just knows that he is being a PRICK about EVERYTHING ...... I was told that in order to have the deal offered to me ..... that it was THE ONLY WAY that they would make a deal AT ALL .... that they wanted the password to my phone FIRST .... now im feeling like i made a big mistake .... i KNOW nothing is on it that is illegal .... they wanted it to 'check' it ONLY .... i was told that normal porn was not an issue ...... that my medical pics were NOT an issue either ..... there isnt anything on there that i remember that is questionable AT ALL ...it had to be OBVIOUS that it was CP .... and IM SOOO NOT INTO THAT SHIT .... thats gross ....
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reptiledudeSeptember 20, 2013 at 6:37 AM
i got told this morning when she called me back with they will NOT withhold adjudication ..... she almost wanted to put the squash on the whold deal and just tell them we are going to trial ..... because im on the fence and scared of everything and not very trustful of whats going on .... that i think things are real shady .... and because im getting told if we go to trial and lose .... which is highly likely ..... we have a good argument .... but there is NO guarantee that we would win .... that i WILL be put on the registry and that i WILL go to prison for 42 months .... maybe more .... i just cant have that .... my animals only have me .... ive tried to arrange places for all my animals to no avail .... no one is willing to help me .... and i have absolutely NO support from the people who should be supporting me out here .... i have NO support system of any kind whatsoever out here .... it was pulling teeth just to get some of my friends to write my PD about me .... character testimonies .... my family wants NOTHING to do with my animals and im scared for their well being and safety ..... my reptiles are conditional species, without me out here with my license to take care of them, they WILL get confiscated by Fish & Wildlife ..... they have to be in the possession of a LICENSED person ..... and those people are far and few between .... there are none of those people that i know of .... my two friends that would or could take them .... would do so and then sell them on me ..... my service dog, Buddie, is who im worried about the most, would prolly end up at animal services .... and i cant have that either .... that WOULD kill me .... he has been attached to my hip since he was 12 weeks old, and would suffer the most if we were to get separated .... he knows that his JOB is to be at my side 24/7 and alert me to either sit down against a wall or pull over if driving when im about to have an "episode" and seize out ..... keep me from hurting myself during .... help me back to consciousness when its over ..... this dog chewed THROUGH a 2" solid wood door .... my front door .... to come and find me recently .... i stepped outside for just 5 minutes ..... it how he has been raised .... his job is his purpose ..its all he knows .... protect daddy ... and it would kill me too .... my depression would become very dark indeed ....i know it would ....
....im so scared right now not knowing weather or not that they are going to give me the deal .... my nerves are completely shot and im finding myself wanting to get physically sick constantly from all of this stress .... if i dont end up having a few 'episodes' from this whole ordeal it is going to be a miracle ....
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reptiledudeSeptember 20, 2013 at 3:57 PM
ALLADIN
i honestly dont remember what all is really on my phone .... BUT i DO KNOW that NOTHING is on there that could be considered CP AT ALL .... i have been looking up roberts appeal record and there are appeals all over the place that he first was the trial judge over .... so i would say that his record is not good at all .... he just does whatever he wants and then lets someone else deal with his mess and unjust abuse of discretion and due process violations of defendants rights at a later time .... meanwhile they get thrown in the pokey or suffer in some other way and the state banks off of it ....
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Justice MyersSeptember 21, 2013 at 12:35 AM
Frankly, I think your attorney is full of shit (for lack of a better word). TOO MANY people have been having this problem with their prosecutors and their "attorneys". I'm not saying they're all bad but too many stories like this one. If that were me, next time I appear in court, ask if you could say something (that will be a fight in it's own right) and if granted get EVERYTHING off your chest. Tell him how if you don't take this plea deal they told you more charges would be added. I don't care if he's tainted I'd tell him and everybody else anyway.
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 4:17 AM
this is possibly a great idea because anything you say is on the record and being recorded by the stenographer. If you needed that info at a later time you would have proof of that! This type of prosecutorial misconduct happens oh so often and it did so even with my case. Time permitting, i would get a second opinion from another attorney if need be. I consulted with 2 other attorneys about the offer they threw out there for me initially, but remember, they usually only offer sweet deals unless they really don't have a strong case against you. They use these tactics to scare the hell out of you....this is nothing new. Just remember, if you take the deal, understand it in its entirety. the only reason i took my deal is because they offered me only probation and no jail time nor registration as a sex offender and I reserved the right to appeal my motion on entrapment. What they got me on at sentencing was that i got 1 year of my probation being community control, and adjudication wasn't witheld as I was advised it would be. I was not too happy about the community control, especially cuz it sucks big time and is very restrictive. Luckily i only had to do 6 months of it until my appellate bond was finally granted
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InsanejusticeSeptember 20, 2013 at 10:17 AM
to reptiledude
17 minutes agoDetails
I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I am even more sorry that your family has all but deserted you. I just cannot understand how those who love you can do this , but somehow they do. You MUST keep fighting! While I am still learning everything-and some of it is too late for my son, I adamately stand behind him. And for you mothers out there... We do know who we raised. Don't let anyone tell you different! My son is already in prison fighting all the life consequences that entails! But I am a woman of faith and I pray for each and everyone of you every day. I want my own son home-immediately and I want those that should never have been there to begin with out of there as of yesterday. They worked so hard to make my son's sentence longer that they messed up his scoresheet. they charged him for his offences 4 days before the so- called crime was committed . We are still checking to see if this can help us. Look over everything they do! Get all your paperwork! Don't let them intimidate you. But if all else fails remember that there are those out here that have valuable assets in those horrible places and we will not stop until they are free! And that my sir does include you. Because you have become a part of this family.
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reptiledudeSeptember 20, 2013 at 3:35 PM
thank you for the kind words .... im just really worried and stressed out beyond belief that things might go bad and that i might have gotten played ..... my attorney told me ...."im not in the business of screwing over my clients, i would last long at my job if i did that' ..... after what happened to me in february, my general trust of anyone has been shattered beyond repair ..... i dont trust anyone anymore like I used to .... there are sharks out there now waiting to destroy and feed on anything that comes in their path..... its definitely not the 50's and 60's anymore .... my grandmother morals that were instilled in me are no longer viable ..... im having a very hard time now especially trusting women in general .... after what happened i dont even look at them the same way like i used to ..... this whole thing has shattered my confidence, my overall view of the world, and my faith in believing that there are good honest and noble people among us .... i just dont look at life the same anymore .... and it REALLY depresses me .... to the point that i ask myself whay am I still here ??? why shouldnt i just join my mother and be done with it all ??? .... it has been women who have taken advantage of my kindness, stomped all over me, broke my heart repeatedly, and double crossed me my entire life .... my mother told me before she died that "unless you get a handle on your problems with women, youre going to live a very long and miserable lonely life ..." .... it seems she was a bit prophetic in those words .... i miss her so much .... up until she died ... no matter what happened ...she was always there for me .... even when i was a pain in the ass ... she would call me regularly and see how i was doing .... i really miss my family ..... i feel so alone ....
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reptiledudeSeptember 20, 2013 at 3:38 PM
CORRECTION :
.... my attorney told me ...."im not in the business of screwing over my clients, i would NOT last long at my job if i did that' .....
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Cautiouswatcher12September 20, 2013 at 1:31 PM
Hey guys i am looking to purchase the Palmer transcripts if anyone would like info on it please feel free to contact me asap. my email is falconbest1251@gmail.com
Thanks
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reptiledudeSeptember 21, 2013 at 9:50 AM
yes i would ..... please and thank you :)
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Cautiouswatcher12September 21, 2013 at 1:45 PM
Please send me an email and i will let you know
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 20, 2013 at 4:57 PM
Why
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aladdinSeptember 20, 2013 at 11:49 PM
Going through the transcripts will show him how various arguments were made. How did Aiken present entrapment to the jury? What did the State present? How did the State's witnesses answer questions on cross? Transcripts can be a very good source of info on how to try these cases. The problem is trial transcripts are very very expensive.
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Talkn StangSeptember 20, 2013 at 10:03 PM
new story out on Georgia's operations. This detective interviewed is a MORON. They will have more violations exposed and we have already filed a complaint citing the Palmer story by Tom Lyons of the Herald Tribune. We will be following up on that as well. It will not be much longer until we get national exposure on this issue so bear with us people. When the timing is absolutely right, I will pull the trigger, but for now, we will continue to watch these operations unravel for the state!
http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23394028/fbi-agent-who-led-sex-crimes-task-force-under-investigation
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Talkn StangSeptember 20, 2013 at 10:52 PM
I am working on trying to have Palmer's story go public, so hold tight. His attorney has already informed me that he is ready to do so and that is how Lyons was able to make his story happen. I set all that up and i have working with Lyons for nearly a year, but that is not the BIG one i am referring to. I am working with another reporter as well as well as others throughout the country. Hopefully we can get Palmer to come forward. I don't really want to give any more info out at this time, but i am here to tell you shit is going to hit the fan soon! And another person involved in the fight has already filed a complaint to the DOJ! Thank you!
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Justice MyersSeptember 21, 2013 at 12:18 AM
Causing no harm, but you said, "His attorney has already informed me that he is ready to do so". Then you said, "Hopefully we can get Palmer to come forward", just asking if you can clarify, if you rather not, that's ok to. But I understand if he may be still be a little iffy about it.
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:13 AM
his attorney is talking obviously, but we need Palmer to talk. I am working on that. I am not sure quite yet if he is willing to do so, but i have informed his attorney of the importance of him speaking out.
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Justice MyersSeptember 21, 2013 at 12:36 AM
I feel it's very important to start letting people know, the government is not working for us, it's actually the complete opposite. Pretty soon they're gonna want to OWN us. If your religious then you know what I'm talking about. Sorry to get off topic a little just felt it was important to let that be known.
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:09 AM
FYI, the 1st DCA used Futch v. State as the basis for making their decision in my case. The same day the 4th DCA ruled in favor of Futch, the state filed a motion for rehearing/clarification that was eventually denied by the appellate court and that decision was mandated some 2 months later after the initial decision. For that reason, i do not think that the state will try to argue the decision because they would be wasting their time. The deadline for filing a motion in my case is 28 Sep. If they do not, the mandate should be noted on or around 8 Oct although that decision will be final on 29 Sep. Once that mandate happens....well, i can tell you that things are going to happen. Hopefully there will be no delay! The state will be wasting their time pursuing the Jothilingam and Maniscalco cases for sure. In my opinion, they need to go ahead and withdraw those appeals because i don't think they want any more appellate court victories! They are hosed!
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:10 AM
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 4:04 AM
I am going to re-post info on appellate bonds as i have done several times in the past. Even if a person is in prison, or probation, they can file a motion for trial judge to set appellate bond at any time if their case is on appeal or intend on filing a notice of appeal. This will relieve anyone from their sentence until their case is final! So if you are in prison, jail, or on probation, you can get out on conditions of that bond. The bond is pretty much the same as a regular bond, it is just done a bit differently and a bailbondsman will know how to handle it. The amount depends on the charges you were sentenced to. I can provide anybody with information that would ensure a bond would not be denied by trial judge if they are interested. just email me at talknstang@yahoo.com. ALthough there have been few appellate victories, i think that is about to change so an appeals bond is a great idea. It worked almost to perfection in my case and i was pretty much a free man until my appeal was victorious. Now that I have won my appeal, I am a FREE MAN! There is hope people
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 21, 2013 at 11:40 AM
Feeling helpless
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 21, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Has anyone else had a case in tallahassee?
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InsanejusticeSeptember 21, 2013 at 3:52 PM
No, St. John's County. I'm his mom and I live in Jacksonville. I wish these guys moms could get together and give these idiots hell. We should be able to help our sons who are already incarcerated somehow but for that we must all bind together as moms and create some action on the inside for them. Let me know if you have some ideas. Insanejustice6@gmail.com
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Prince MachiavelliSeptember 21, 2013 at 4:01 PM
My case is in tallahassee. I did not travel, only communicated on email and they drove 2 hours to come and arrest me on a military base. I have a motion to suppress and a motion to dismiss hearing on the 21st. I have been fighting this for almost 2 years and it ended my military career as well as making it difficult to find a job and be in public. My only friend I have left is my wife who has stuck with me through all of this. These assholes destroyed my life just by illegally arrestng me for emails
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InsanejusticeSeptember 21, 2013 at 4:03 PM
Sorry I's insanejustice62@gmail.com. If we do nothing but bounce around ideas to help them, then we've done something! I want to know what avenues we have at our disposal to help get them the help( legal or otherwise) they need to expedite their release!
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 21, 2013 at 5:12 PM
We had been fighting since oct 2011 went to trial in August really thought we had it but jury came back guilty Kathy ray wasnt even strong then hankinson sentenced to 3/12 years last week . My son was ifsu going to med school . He leaves for prison next week feel helpless
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4evermomSeptember 22, 2013 at 10:15 AM
Jenn my son has been in sice April. We pray constantly for his safety. These guys not only get put in prison but also classified in a way so they end up in there with the most violent of crimanals. I live in central florida but visit north florida regularly if you would like to meet sometime. Hang in there. We know since God is our Savior he as bigger planas for our sons!
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 8:41 PM
i have worked with several of those Tally guys and know several others as well. Leon county has been the most unfair and unjust of any other counties as it relates to these stings and the media has just brutalized them. They will do whatever it takes to get a 100% conviction rate on all arrests. All i can tell you is that Tallahassee is going to be the beginning of the end soon enough, i can promise you that! That's all i can really say, but you have to believe that after working on these things as long as I have that I do believe the end is near. Thank GOD the courts have been helping us out some. It has made a HUGE difference
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Talkn StangSeptember 21, 2013 at 8:44 PM
also, we will be starting a new comment page soon since this one seems to be filling up. Don't be alarmed if all these comments are under another comment tab at the top right of the blog. And wow, the # of hits the blog has received is more than ever.
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Talkn StangSeptember 22, 2013 at 1:20 AM
for those of you who have not seen the petition, it can't hurt to keep it going http://www.change.org/petitions/florida-gov-scott-dept-of-justice-us-congress-pres-of-the-us-pardon-all-people-arrested-and-coviction-of-internet-sex-stings
113 comments:
Jenn McKeeSeptember 22, 2013 at 4:50 PM
What happened
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Cautiouswatcher12September 22, 2013 at 5:50 PM
We are still hoping to find someone to help split the costs of the transcripts for the Palmer case. My lawyer has talked with Mr. Aiken and wants to review his process for jury selection, he highly recommended that she review this. While we all know we can develop the best strategy for defense but the most critical element is getting a jury that will listen to the evidence, Mr Aiken spent considerable time developing questions and process for selecting from the over 50 crowd that was his jury pool and this is the most expensive part of these transcripts. In addition she wants to review his strategy for the cross examination of law enforcement, he had them go through the process of posting the ad live on Craigslist in the court, which resolves the issue of bringing in many of the elements from Craigslist on the terms and how many times they must confirm they are over 18. This is similar to the strategy used in the Morgan case (he was found not guilty on the three primary charges) Please email me at falconbest1251@gmail.com thanks
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Talkn StangSeptember 22, 2013 at 8:30 PM
I just sent you an email and I got your request, but for the amount of money those transcripts are costing, that would be too much to ask of anyone honestly. But that did give me an idea. I will ask Aiken if he can put something together to document his approach to these stings cases at trial. I will ask the same thing of attorney Gary Schwartz. Hopefully if they have time they can put something together for us.
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Talkn StangSeptember 22, 2013 at 7:27 PM
the old comments will be posted on a new tab at the top right of the BLOG. THe page was getting too full, not to worry
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reptiledudeSeptember 23, 2013 at 1:43 PM
When?? The link is not there
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Talkn StangSeptember 22, 2013 at 10:10 PM
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 23, 2013 at 4:23 AM
If you have a private attorney and have been declared indigent for cost then your attorney can get the state to pay for the Palmer case transcripts. If you have a PD then the state will pay for them then too. We dont need to and should not pay for them ourselves. Someone please get their attorney or PD to get them. How close are we to getting the depos stating they cannot use adult sites? How close are we to having the federal training training manual subpoenad stating the same thing?
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Brian RSeptember 23, 2013 at 9:33 AM
whY DOES IT COST SO MUCH, WHO IS CHARGING?
wHY NOT JUST GET IT FROM IT HE COUNTY
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Cautiouswatcher12September 23, 2013 at 3:02 PM
The reason that they are so expensive is they are coming from the county and they vary based on the county they are coming from. but please email me for more info thanks.
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Talkn StangSeptember 23, 2013 at 5:12 PM
quoting "A lot of it had to do with jury selection. I am a believer in the old adage that cases are won and lost in jury selection. We also went live to Craigslist Casual Encounters in the Courtroom to show the jurors that it was purely an adult hookup site. We hammered the misrepresentations in the agents initial ad and hammered the fact that they sent a photograph of a person (age 17) it would have been legal to have sex with. It was a good trial in front of a tough judge." Having posted that, then the photographs used need to be attacked. Although an actual photo of a minor is not always used as it was in Palmers case, we know from the standards that they are not allowed to send a photo of a minor. I would think the actual age of the person in any photo is very relevant! Ask the detective on the stand what the actual age of the person in the photo is. Make them look like fools! It is not difficult to come up with a great line of questioning using that FACT. A jury would love to hear that any person in the photograph is 26 or whatever legal age, yet they say they are 14. Remember, you were on an adult website and people lie about themselves all the time. Law enforcement cannot make you believe that what they say is true when they misrepresent themselves this way because essentially they are saying is that you must believe anything that anybody tells you online, and that simply is ridiculous!
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Talkn StangSeptember 23, 2013 at 9:28 PM
There are some guys sitting in prison right now that I promised that I would not stop until we accomplish the mission...... and even though my case has been won, i continue to fight......it is not a matter of whether we will succeed or not, it is a matter of when!
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personSeptember 23, 2013 at 10:40 PM
is there any interest in a forum and/or wiki? let me know, i personally think we've outgrown the comments section but i would prefer to gather interest before proceeding. let me know on here or email; person@dubcube.com
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Brian RSeptember 23, 2013 at 10:42 PM
Stang this a long fight, more cases won more attention to free innocent people wrongfully abused by our own government. Keep fighting
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Talkn StangSeptember 23, 2013 at 11:36 PM
i posted a comment to correct a mistake that was made in this blog, but it didnt make it apparently. http://cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com/2013/05/craigslist-casual-encounters-and.html Also, the remaining charge after the 5th DCA's ruling was tossed out by the state soon after the appellate ruling. Good for Morgan....he is now a free man. Soon there will be more!
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 6:19 AM
here is the information that I have from the Siperly case. The detectives names are Coggswell of the Lakeland PD, and Salito of Orlando PD. Now the spelling could be somewhat off, but it shouldn't be hard to cross reference that info
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aladdinSeptember 24, 2013 at 7:09 AM
I think it's Det. Rick Salcedo, Orlando Police Department. He works sex crimes and was depo'd in another case from the same sting. I'm not sure about Coggswell yet
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 8:39 AM
there ya go, lol 1 out of 2 aint bad!
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 9:19 AM
i have heard that Salcedo name before.....cant remember exactly what, but i think it was in the same discussion when we were discussing Charles Snipes and DataTriangle!
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 9:25 AM
And since i brought up that name again, if anybody has the money to hire Snipes and get his expert testimony about these sting operations being flawed, it would be worth your time. Perhaps someone needs to at least call him at DataTriangle which is based out of Gainsville to see if he might be able to offer assistance.
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Brian RSeptember 24, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Does anyone know which of the two said they never got an ICAC manual. Its $6 a page. If I tell them what to look for then will just print that. But each witness is about 200 pages. I just need the ICAC part of the testimony. Anyone have contact with Kelly or Siperly or was at the trial. It would realy help to show that my officers did not have the maual, before they change their tune.
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 9:56 AM
While researching the name of Loriana Fiorino that i remember from many moons ago, I come across this f'd up case I am currently reviewing it but am seeing some serious problems for sure http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FCO%2020130319089
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InsanejusticeSeptember 24, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Just found out that Sheriff Rutherford from Jax and Sen Thrasher and others are on their way to Tally to discuss the stings. This can't be good for North FL. Just wanted to warn everyone. Also a question, on a score sheet, shouldn't it have to list the date of the charge? not just an approximate time frame? how can they say a travel occurred like on the 7-9th when it happened on the 9th and they added points on the obscene and then also on the 7-9th? seems fishy. There was no communication on the 7th or 8th. Just asking. Beware Jax.They're coming up with something for a sting!
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aladdinSeptember 24, 2013 at 2:30 PM
How long has this meeting been scheduled? I'm asking because there are things going on in the background that might have caused this meeting to happen.
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 8:04 PM
i do believe they are going there to discuss sex offender issue, but hopefully stings will be a topic as well
http://www.flsenate.gov/Media/Videoplayer.cfm?EventID=2443575804_2013091144
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 8:09 PM
I have known about this meeting for sometime through the FAC. I do believe Gail and others were to speak. I am just now watching it
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 8:43 PM
nope, no sting conversation unless i missed it while shuffling through the vid. It was all sex offender related.
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Justice MyersSeptember 24, 2013 at 9:12 PM
Next month prepare to see them all across Florida.
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Talkn StangSeptember 24, 2013 at 9:40 PM
see what? sting operations being done? lol that ain't gonna happen....more like task forces being shut down
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 25, 2013 at 5:35 AM
Still waiting for a miracle!
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InsanejusticeSeptember 25, 2013 at 10:57 AM
And what about about all the guys already incarcerated? They do need a miracle and they need it now!
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 11:15 AM
just like they shut down "To Catch a Predator", these operations will suffer the same fate
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 11:17 AM
just got word that Palmer is NOT going to talk and that is unfortunate. I am ready to though.
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 25, 2013 at 12:17 PM
Thats too bad I know if my son werenot in prison he would talk about how it's dstroyed his life he would have graduated from college last year.
He would want to help stop this madness
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Yes it is too bad, and it makes no sense, but I do know why he is not talking and that makes no sense either.( I can't put that information on the blog, sorry.) I am not quite sure why one of my reporter contacts is not considering my story when several others are, but I am about to find out.
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 25, 2013 at 12:32 PM
Lets not loose hope people. This will stop. What else can we all of us do? Who has the authority to stop al this and drop our charges?
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HavanawebsolutionsSeptember 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM
We need to find a reporter that will run this story. That will make a big diference in this cause
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 1:00 PM
I have the media thing covered, not to worry. I have been working on that for over a year so don't think for a minute that they are oblivious to what is happening. We are just waiting for a few other things to happen first! That too I just cannot discuss here, sorry.
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM
But is it really going to help people like my son who are already convicted and in jail?
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 7:28 PM
According to Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure rules 3.60(a)(3) and (c) could be the basis for a retrial in your sons case. But I am no attorney, i just call it like i see it, lol! Just don't ever give up!
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 7:45 PM
deadline for filing that motion for retrial is 10 days
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Justice MyersSeptember 25, 2013 at 9:48 PM
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 9:50 PM
For those who are arrested and never show up at site, this is interesting ABANDONMENT OF CRIMINAL ACT: Abandonment of a crime of solicitation or conspiracy is a valid affirmative defense under ' 777.04. Dixon v. State, 559 So.2d 354, 356 (1st DCA 1990). It may also be a defense to inchoate substantive criminal acts. Smith v. State, 424 So.2d at 732.
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Justice MyersSeptember 25, 2013 at 9:52 PM
I'm completely baffled as to why there STILL hasn't been a rally yet. I have SEEN people say they will go and support, all they needed was the time (which was months upon months ago). If I stayed even remotely near Tally I would be there without question. It WILL definitely get attention no questions asked. People would NATURALLY want to know what's going on. It honestly doesn't make any sense to me. And the reason I'm pinpointing Tally is because that's where a lot of people who were wronged stay, and it's ONE OF the wost areas concerning these stings. We keep complaining, but what we need to realize is sometimes in life you have to make your own opportunities and not on others to make them for you, because that rarely happens.
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Talkn StangSeptember 25, 2013 at 10:40 PM
well aint this a pisser? another Craigslist victim. Only one, but that is one too many http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/23526873/gainesville-man-arrested-on-child-enticement-charges
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Patrick StenstromSeptember 25, 2013 at 11:45 PM
I've been caught up in the sting in Gainesville back in June. Still have not had any formal charges. the thing is that i posted an ad on craigslist and they responded to my ad. Yeah i did transfer some pics and also traveled. I kept trying to end this conversation but GPD was relentless. I mean i had quit communicating with them for several hours and what do u know here they come again after me. Kept asking for photos on and on and on. I finally did it but it was to just get this"boy" off my back. I'm in limbo for now.
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Talkn StangSeptember 26, 2013 at 7:20 PM
Help is on the way soon for everyone I hope. All i can say is hang in there people!
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Talkn StangSeptember 26, 2013 at 8:53 PM
and thanks to those who had my back after the ridiculous comments at http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Edwin_Gennette_5601287/#c5t_comment
I find it quite interesting that whoever is moderating the comments refuses to post any further comments from me, lol I made sure I copied every single page of that site for future use!
"he who laughs first will pay later!" famous words from me!
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Jenn McKeeSeptember 27, 2013 at 2:11 PM
Noones on here anymore
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Talkn StangSeptember 27, 2013 at 7:37 PM
i wouldn't worry about it, lol there are moments of silence. I am going to be taking a break here soon as well while I watch things fall into place. I do think my work is close to being over with. I am hoping to just sit back and watch everything unfold
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InsanejusticeSeptember 28, 2013 at 3:57 AM
I'm still here and I want to wish Mr. Stang congratulations. I hope those guys have deep pockets when's you standing there laughing with all your heart! Make us all proud...we know you won' forget our loved-ones still left behind in those awful places! Your victory is victory for all of us!!!! Go Stang...Go and Conquer!!! Lol
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Talkn StangSeptember 28, 2013 at 10:25 AM
No need for congratulations yet, there still is work to be done! I have been also working on how to tackle any possible civil claim that anyone might have if they win their cases and I am here to tell you it is not an easy task to find an attorney who will take a case like these. We are kind of charting new territory in that regard, but to think that anyone that has won their case like I have and not have a possible claim is ridiculous. It is still way early and I do expect things to change. I will soon have attorney's blowing my phone up just ready to take my case (at least I hope). As I find out more, I will keep everyone updated but I think the best route to take is a civil RICO claim! Civil RICO is not only a BIG $ type suit, but it is also a policy changer and that is what we want!
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Talkn StangSeptember 28, 2013 at 11:21 AM
so let me remind everyone, if you have a criminal case still pending....you don't even need to think about any civil claim because you are not going to get rich from this whole ordeal. Focus on winning your case and maybe we will have things figured out where they will pay for what they have done to us! These stings are nothing short of criminal conspiracy
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 29, 2013 at 4:51 PM
PROUD TO SAY THAT THERE IS NEW CASE LAW ON THE "CASE LAW LINKS PAGE"! HERE IT IS:
Gennette vs. State, 1D12-3407 (Sept. 13, 2013)
Because the preponderance of the evidence, as set out in the e-mail messages, showed the law enforcement officer’s methods of persuasion induced or encouraged, and as a direct result caused Appellant’s unlawful communications, the legal definition of entrapment set out in section 777.201, Florida Statues was met and the motion to dismiss should have been granted. The law does not tolerate government action to provoke a law-abiding citizen to commit a crime in order to prosecute him or her with that crime.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 29, 2013 at 5:19 PM
"STOPTHEINSANITY" and where to find the federal code proving entrapment as a matter of law has been added above. The creator of "STOPTHEINSANITY" has done a great job and EVERYTHING he/she has worked on should also be read and understood.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comSeptember 30, 2013 at 5:30 PM
We need a list of all the cases and their respective case numbers that have been either dropped, acquitted, or won at trial. I.e. Ryu Nolin, case number blah. Please post this list. Thanks
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Talkn StangSeptember 30, 2013 at 7:14 PM
i am awaiting official word that case #1d12-3407 will be mandated. The 15 day time limit for filing anything opposing the 1stDCA's ruling or filing for an extension of time has passed. As soon as I can confirm this, I will let everyone know.
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Talkn StangSeptember 30, 2013 at 7:22 PM
http://floridacriminallawreport.com/home/2013/09/20/first-orders-dismissal-on-entrapment-ground-in-sex-sting-case/
http://floridacriminallawreport.com/home/tag/defenses-entrapment/
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Talkn StangSeptember 30, 2013 at 10:21 PM
Scott Evans, Jason Palmer.....Edwin Gennette, Timothy Morgan, Jothilingam, Maniscalco.....i definitely could use a complete list for sure. I could make good use of it with all my media contacts I have
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Jenn McKeeOctober 1, 2013 at 10:40 AM
Happy for you. My son left jail for prison today:(
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 1, 2013 at 11:12 AM
Jenn we are really sorry. I cant emagine how you would feel. But i have to believe that true will come out and the right thing will be done. Be strong
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Sandra RollinsOctober 1, 2013 at 5:36 PM
Jenn,
My heart bleeds for you. I too have a close personal friend going thru thus. We all know the charges are bullsh*t, especially being we are dealing with make believe minors. I would suggest to all that you reschedule out to your legislators- they are starting committee meetings and have them look st these statutes. They are not aware that they are only catching 2% of pedophiles in these stings and that 95%,of the guys capture are being rail roaded. Our justice system is really in sad shape but because of the way law enforcement and media protray these stings the stigma is hard to get people beyond. We must continue to fight because it is not right.
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM
I had a dream. A dream where we were giving flyers about the true.. A dream where from small airplane we dropped flyers with the true over sarasota county for everyone to read. I wad just a dream.
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Talkn StangOctober 1, 2013 at 6:20 PM
ok, some unfortunate news today. Looks like the state filed a motion for an extension of time to argue the decision on 1d12-3407. They are foolish in that they are just delaying the inevitable. This doesn't mean that you still cannot use this with your case.....it just means that it is not binding yet. It will probably be close to 2 months before this is final I think
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Patricia SmithOctober 1, 2013 at 9:13 PM
My son is waiting on trial in January. This has destroyed him. It's been a while since I've been on the blog but my heart goes out to everyone that is fighting this battle. The stress from all this sent my son into a psychotic break that he has not recovered from. He was already schizophrenic and bipolar but the prosecutor offered a plea of 9 months jail, 5 years sex offender probation and be on sec offender registry forever. We refused the deal. The undercover person sent a picture of a girl that looked way older 14 and all they did was talk and my son did send one inappropriate picture. When he was arrested, there was at least 20 officers in my yard and a helicopter. Talk about ridiculous. Please pray for my son. He had already tried to hurt himself 3 times.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 4:24 AM
can you email me at talknstang@yahoo.com. thanks.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 2:26 AM
I am so sorry to hear about your son, and unfortunately it is a story we hear way too often. But things are changing and we are making progress. Please, if you have sons that are in prison, jail, etc, let them know that there are several of us doing everything we can to try and make a difference and although it might seem like progress is slow, there is much more happening behind the scenes than people realize. The goal is to put a stop to these stings and we have put a dent into making that happen. Once it does though, we will consult with attorneys to get advice on what those in prison should do. We are hoping that many cases will clearly show ICAC rule violations and perhaps that will be the key to our success.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 2:34 AM
Also, although we are not exactly sure why, we can speculate.....but the fact there has not been any of the large type sting operations in 2.5 months might account for something.(knock on wood) If you are a mother of a son that has been arrested, don't just sit back and wait though. Do anything, pick up the phone and call, or better yet, go by your local chapter of the ACLU, get in touch with youre state representative, etc, and complain. Believe it or not, many of these people are actually unaware of what is really happening. The more people that speak out, the better!
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scaredmommaOctober 2, 2013 at 7:39 AM
the tallahassee aclu refused to even talk to us about these stings,they only deal with civil rights,it seems like mostly racial issues.they want nothing to do with this crap.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 9:51 AM
that might be because of how the media has portrayed the stings there in Leon county. The ACLU has defended against stings in the past dealing with targeting gay men. These stings have EVERYTHING to do with civil rights, believe me! But not to worry, things are changing! I'll keep everyone informed soon enough! I just filed another complaint, and will follow up with a phone call shortly. Now that the 1stDCA's decision has been made ruling entrapment, that should help them understand the severity of the problem. If not, we have PLAN B coming soon!
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Justice MyersOctober 2, 2013 at 9:55 AM
Or we could do the rally and get media attention as I suggested but was ignored...It's really not that hard, Id be on the sidewalk every week if I had to seriously. I'll say it again, when you sit and wait for people to make opportunities for you, get comfortable because it may not happen. I'm not trying to be negative at all but to be honest it does kinda tick me off, I remember being here almost a year ago and that's all everybody talked about was doing a rally, now..I guess that VERY CLEVER idea flew out the window. Oh well whatever, I'll continue to fight regardless, I've just been taught to NEVER wait/depend on somebody else.
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Darren McGavinOctober 2, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Hello to the Blog. I am a victim of one of these stings done in Tampa. I am not a FLA resident and have been handling my case from my home state on bond and spending big $ to hire attorneys.
I agree that this practice is completely entrapment and must be stopped. All the cases in which this technique of ICAC standards have been ignored should be revisited and dismissed if possible. And there should be a class action suit against the police and prosecutors responsible for ruining so many lives. My life over 1000 miles away is being torn apart and I am not going down without a fight.
I am a professional in the media industry. My skills allow me to use a very powerful weapon: Video and the internet. Below is my CL (ironic) posting seeking people willing to be on camera to discuss this huge injustice.
We are producing a documentary film about the nature of law enforcement's use of questionable tactics in seeking sexual predators on the internet. Many innocent people are being entrapped by law enforcement and prosecuted unjustly often ending up in prison and ruining their lives.
The Background:
• For the past several years law enforcement in many areas of Florida has conducted internet "stings" under the funding and guidelines of ICAC (Internet Crimes Against Children). These stings are meant to find sexual predators seeking sex with underage victims.
• In many cases, officers are posting ads in "adult" areas of the web (Craigslist, OK Cupid, etc) and posing as an adult of 19 or so. They entice men to engage in sexual conversation and eventually begin to hint at their "actual" age which is not 19, but perhaps 17 or 15. From there any conversations recorded by police are interpreted as illegal and the person caught in the sting is apprehended and arrested at their home or place of work.
• In other cases officers pose as an adult parent of a child they want to provide for sexual purposes. Officers send photos of the "mother", usually attractive, while keeping the conversation moving ahead.
What has happened as a result of these entrapment stings? Men seeking lawful sexual contact with a consenting adult are being arrested and prosecuted for crimes they were never interested in seeking out. Families are being torn apart. Men are being thrown in prison for terms between 5-15 years and having to live registered as a sexual offender or predator. These people are being used to promote an agenda and keep the prison industry of Florida profitable by CREATING criminal acts rather than detecting them, investigating and then prosecuting actual child sexual predators.
This ad is a call for possible interview subjects for the film who would be willing to share their story about themselves or someone they care about who has been caught in one of these stings.
You can tell your story and remain anonymous if you wish, although we feel most victims of these entrapment stings have nothing to be ashamed of.
We will be producing the film in the coming weeks. For now we wish to seek out interview candidates and qualify them in a phone call. During production a crew with a camera, lighting package and audio recorder will come to a location you feel most safe in to conduct the interview.
We hope to gather as many interviews and stories as possible so we may help spread the word about this horrible injustice being perpetrated against average citizens.
Thank you!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 10:41 AM
you can email me at talknstang@yahoo.com.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 2, 2013 at 12:17 PM
Hey there my 22 year old son just went to prison he would share his story if he could so i will. He was in college at fsu at the time . We have community support. Email me jennimckee@bellsouth.net
Thanks
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scaredmommaOctober 3, 2013 at 5:55 AM
MR.maGavin,i for one will tell my sons story,i will not hide from it,he is is prison now.he knows people in there know what hes been accused of,it is just a matter of time until something bad happens to him,yes i want to tell his story,im positive his wife ans 2 children will too,we have lost everything,except hope.trey has helped to keep our hopes alive.just let us know and we will do what is needed.
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Darren McGavinOctober 2, 2013 at 10:33 AM
And the CL link itself:
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/vnn/4102521800.html
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 10:48 AM
That is a very interesting post for sure, and I applaud the idea. I provided my email above. You definitely need to make contact with me, thanks.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 2, 2013 at 1:48 PM
Justice Myers is right, we NEED to band together and do the rally. If we cant meet at one spot we can do it all over the state. We understand that most are scared of what might happen after but we can assure you that it will not be negative for us! THEY ARE GOING DOWN! This blog was meant to bring people together because we cant do it alone. This blog is responsible for the recent Gennette victory, the two Manatee county victories, Ryu Nolin's case getting dropped, etc. Sure some have done more than others but the point is that things were done for EVERYONE. This is a war meant to defend the constitution that we did not start. ALL WE WANT AND NEED IS SOLDIERS!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 2:27 PM
I spent nearly an hour on the phone with McGavin and I have little doubt about his intentions. I totally support what he is wanting to do and I am pretty sure we can make that happen, so this could be the opportunity for mothers, loved ones, persons wrongfully convicted, etc to speak out. I don't think there will be any shortage of persons willing to do so. As we put together a plan, we will keep everybody informed, but I have suggested we start in Tallahassee and spend some time there! In the mean time, we just have to wait a tiny bit longer for another GREAT reason to celebrate! I do believe x-mas is going to come early this year, lol!
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FightingthechargesOctober 2, 2013 at 3:53 PM
Another sting is unfolding in central florida I have seen the ads they are coming back! Everyone needs to flag these illegal ads! I think some good things are coming but LEO'a are not slowing down.
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FightingthechargesOctober 2, 2013 at 4:00 PM
Here is one of the ads
shhhh its a secret!!! - w4m (bradenton)
Am seeking a man at least 35 or older who would like to be fwb with a very young girl. I need a man who wants to try anything and has a very sick/twisted mind. I am ready to please my man but it must be kept a very tight secret between the two of us. Please email me if you want to know what I have to offer. You know who you are if your a little different than all the other guys. Interested in different things, that's what I'm for. Email me please.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 4:26 PM
that Ad is illegal for one. lol that is if an LEO placed it. It creates both the opportunity and idea and when you ad the 2 together, you have entrapment. I hope nobody falls for that one because it is pretty blatant
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aladdinOctober 2, 2013 at 5:02 PM
They are doing that kind of ad to establish predisposition. They are going to say anybody that even answers the ad was predisposed to "sick/twisted" activity with a "very young girl" taking subjective entrapment away as a defense.
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 4:29 PM
i think we need to go ahead and post http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/vnn/4102521800.html in the same section, lol. Oh the joy that would bring to my weary soul, lmao
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 4:37 PM
i am not seeing that "shhhhh its a secret" ad in Bradenton so it must have been flagged. Good job though. They would be really foolish to place such an ad, but nothing would surprise me! One thing is almost certain, they are or are going to have to change their strategy if they want to keep on sucking taxpayer dollars out of the DOJ and because of this, we can predict their next move or what they might do. It is nice to know things are much in our favor now!
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FightingthechargesOctober 2, 2013 at 5:16 PM
Exactly I saw an ad the other day on backpage that was very blatant, they know they are going to lose and by changing their strategy they know they won't hit many arrests. I feel like a change is coming for the better! My case has been pushed to next year which gives me some time to get things sorted out. I feel bad for the people that have lost everything, mothers that have lost sons, families ripped apart, etc. Change will come we just can't expect it to happen overnight. There has been alot of changes in the past year many are small steps, but I still thank everyone for their hard work!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 8:30 PM
Absolutely, and it is good that you see exactly what is beginning to happen. I can assure you it will get much better soon enough! I have been on the phone all day it seems going over things with people and with others i've been working with for a long time on these stings. We all agree that much progress has been made, but at the same time there is much work to be done! We have a plan/strategy and it will work! The biggest thing is to somehow let those know who are in prison/jail know that we are working our tail off and we will find a solution for those who have been wronged! In fact, we have the solution, but it all has to play out accordingly!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 9:58 PM
Man I am mad. You dirty cops.....you goddamn dirty cops that are responsible for ruining lives. How in the hell do you sleep at night? You hide behind your little charade and guise of "protecting the children" when you do nothing of the sort deliberately. You took and oath to serve and protect, yet you destroy the lives of innocent men. The only thing you serve is more lies to the public....the same lies that used to work in your favor, will soon enough be your demise. And the worthless shield you wear so proudly is forever tarnished with the names of the innocent men you wrongfully sent to prison. You might have been laughing before, but I can almost guarantee that there is a look of concern on each and every one of your guilty faces. You are each a conspirator into the most despicable, criminal, hanus, and corrupt law enforcement operation that this country has ever seen. What is coming to you will be far worse than any conviction anyone has received from your illegal operations and soon there will be "Shock and Awe" as some of your names are made public as well as removing the funding that you rely on to keep your criminal operations afloat! You have fought a good battle, but you will not win this war! Toujours Pret!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 11:41 PM
To truly understand the irony in my beautiful poem, you must know that on top of having a criminology degree, between my active duty periods when I was enlisted and the time I was an officer, I was actually a military police officer in the Army reserves while I was in college. I was actually considering law enforcement as a profession. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but if I had been an officer in one of these sting operations and knew what they were doing was wrong, I would have been the first one to turn my badge in and tell the truth. I can only hope to God that somebody within law enforcement is reading this that actually has some compassion for others and would want to speak out. We are very aware that not all law enforcement officers are corrupt and they are a necessity because society is too large to govern itself. I challenge any law enforcement officer who has any knowledge of these wrongful operations, to step up to the plate and do the right thing. You might be frowned upon by other dirty bastards, but those are the same dirty bastards that probably put you in the position you didn't want to be in anyway. I know the name of at least one detective who knows that these operations are wrong and tried to tell others, but the others didn't give a shit and because of that, I ended up in jail. I didn't particularly like being in jail, and I can only imagine how those guys are feeling that are sitting in prison right now for no other reason than being a statistic!
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Talkn StangOctober 2, 2013 at 11:59 PM
and good job guys on finding that possible "boogeyman" ad that could have been sting related. There have been several persons who have dedicated some time in hunting down those type ads to expose them and in one instance actually challenged them. This is something that is a must read, lol. I will get with others to see if this is something we might want to release for your reading pleasure! It is risky taking a chance like in this case, but it really will bring you much satisfaction know that their bluff was called!
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devotedgfOctober 3, 2013 at 6:45 AM
This comment has been removed by the author.
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Talkn StangOctober 3, 2013 at 8:24 AM
careful when using anyone's name on the blog, lol
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Talkn StangOctober 3, 2013 at 10:35 AM
I want to remind people......in Georgia, it took only 1 clear violation of ICAC standards to shut down that task force. ONLY 1, and I know for fact that there are more from those Georgia cases. If i started to add up all of Florida's violations that I am aware of, it would take me forever!
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Talkn StangOctober 3, 2013 at 11:36 PM
Although I think i have brought this up before,I wasn't going to post anything further in regards to the 3 men who we know took their lives after being caught in a sting. These 3 suicides have gone quietly unnoticed while the 2 "staged" suicides were the talk of the nation. I am here to tell you that 3 serious, unnecessary, preventable crimes of conspiracy to commit manslaughter or even worse have been committed here. You can bet your sweet ass that when these stings are exposed soon, somebody will eventually be facing serious charges. The suicide of Louis Conradt showed public outrage in Texas and all over the nation in fact, which ended in a 105$ million wrongful death lawsuit. I bet these 3 guys have gotten squat!!!! We will fix that! It is time for the world to know about these 3 guys who took their own lives because of the malicious intent of law enforcement with these stings! Being that I am a war veteran, what bothers me even more is that one of these guys was also an honorably discharged US Army vet., and law enforcement has dishonorably taken his life from him
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 1:29 AM
wow, the Judd comment in this article is absolutely amazing, lol
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_polk/craigslist-and-polk-deputies-forge-uneasy-alliance-in-sex-sting
Still, Sheriff Judd isn't satisfied that Craigslist is doing enough to curb sexual transactions on it's massively popular website.
"They agreed that when we brought [specific ad posters] to their attention, they would block them forever more. But quite frankly I'm at a loss as to why this kind of activity has to be on Craigslist or any other list," complained Judd
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 4, 2013 at 8:46 AM
So basically he is saying that because he has a vendetta against these types of internet sites that he will destroy people's lives in order to get the sites banned?
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 12:04 PM
he is a hypocrit, lol. You can't have your cake and eat it too! On one hand he is saying that he doesn't condone anyone posting any type of sexual content on Craigslist, but on the other hand he is quite alright with law enforcement doing it. What a croc of poopoo! I am so glad I found that article. Apparently he had a change of heart after those $'s started flowing to help build his command and control center, lol!
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 12:06 PM
http://www.ticss.net/documents/CSSCaseStudy-PolkCounty.pdf
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devotedgfOctober 4, 2013 at 2:35 PM
Talkn Stang Please check your email
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devotedgfOctober 4, 2013 at 3:07 PM
Ok here is some more info for people some of this may help with those already in Prison or still fighting
Pam Bond: complaints against FCOC
Attorney General www.oag.state.fl.us
Pl-01, the capital
Tallahassee, Fl. 32399-1050
(850)4871963
Govenor Rick Scott
PL-05 The Capital
Tallahassee, Fl. 32399-0001
(850)488-4441
Florida Legal service
2121 Delta Blvd.
Tallahassee, Fl. 32303
(850)385-7900
File complaint on lawyers not doing
their job to provide you proper legal
services
National Clemency Project
8624 Camp Columbus Road
Hixon, Tennessee 37343
Compaints against FCOC
Edwin G. Buss
florida dept. of corrections secretary
501 South calhoun street
Tallahassee, Fl 32399-2500
sec (850)4887480
Hotline (850)488-7577
Sec personal sec. (850)410-4223
www.dc.state.fl.us
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Jenn McKeeOctober 4, 2013 at 5:43 PM
What should we do with this inf o. I feel somewhat debilitated can't talk to my son don't know if he will be gone for 3.5 years or what will happen
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 7:31 PM
Save it for sure. Any info is good info! We are going to have a sign-up list out soon for those who want to participate in the documentary. As soon as i finalize details, i will get that info out to everyone.
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 9:52 PM
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 10:21 PM
Ok, let's test this sign-up sheet and see how it goes. Let me know if anybody has any issues with it. Once i finish testing it, we will include a TAB for the link as well to the right of the blog page
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1b0RK9W0XkR3vhDWY8DfxQCuJOlx03Qf8D4_Y31QA9RI/viewform
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Talkn StangOctober 4, 2013 at 11:26 PM
I will also make my presentation on "The Truths and Realities about Florida's Sex Sting Operations" available at the below link as well. I guess I should have done this a while back. We will include this link on a tab soon.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzLomEB8bi2PTnpQQ1dSZjFJVGM/edit?usp=sharing
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Talkn StangOctober 5, 2013 at 10:12 AM
the state is going to try and fight the appellate court ruling on entrapment and have already filed their motions for rehearing/rehearing en banc. We know that an appellate victory in favor of entrapment is the last thing they wanted so i presume they are fishing for any reason to fight it, but there is nothing the court overlooked. They are just delaying the inevitable
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Talkn StangOctober 5, 2013 at 10:56 AM
also, my good buddy has a plethora of info on his scriptogram site. Hopefully people are using that site as a great tool. Usually if we find a document that people can use, we will make it available there.....There is a link up at the top of the page as well "STOP THE INSANITY"
http://scriptogr.am/stoptheinsanity
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Talkn StangOctober 5, 2013 at 9:27 PM
proper reasons for making these arrests, http://www.petaluma360.com/article/20130718/ARTICLES/130719486/1036/business?p=2&tc=pg
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Talkn StangOctober 5, 2013 at 9:51 PM
this is a very interesting article, and by a very noted author. Hopefully he will respond to my message http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2009/12/sexual-predators-200912?currentPage=1
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Darren McGavinOctober 6, 2013 at 4:33 PM
That is a good article. Shows how people have been getting the shaft for years with these stings.
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Talkn StangOctober 6, 2013 at 7:14 PM
Ok people, i need some volunteers like real quicklike to do some research for us about these stings. It'll have to do with sting related data, etc. This is very important so let me know who has the time and can volunteer. Thanks
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Talkn StangOctober 6, 2013 at 8:53 PM
i am going to create a data entry form for each sting and we need to collect as much of the data as possible. This will require looking up every single name in a sting a getting that info from the clerk of courts websites. What I am wanting to do is take that data so we can use it to show that these stings do nothing to catch real predators. We have proof that most predators will have CP on their computers so data that says that these stings rarely show that will go a long way! Anyway, all anyone will have to do is fill out the data input sheet for each name and submit it. Then it will post on a spreadsheet that i will have. We want to get this information out there for attorneys to use to start attacking these stings. Nobody is attacking these stings from that viewpoint and we can make a great argument
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Talkn StangOctober 7, 2013 at 10:08 AM
thanks for those who have already contacted me about helping with this data. I still have many more sting operations to do so as soon as I set them up, i'll get them out there for people to complete. We need to figure out a way to get the data from counties that won't show court records.
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Talkn StangOctober 7, 2013 at 11:45 AM
as soon as this government shutdown concludes, we are going to bombard the DoJ's Office of Professional Responsibility with complaints. And I am talking making phone calls. You can pull up that dept's information on the DoJ's website. This is where complaints need to be filed i do believe.....at least that is what the attorney from Georgia told me he did to get the FBI involved.
258 comments:
Talkn StangOctober 7, 2013 at 9:21 PM
the old comments will be posted on another tab tomorrow. Sorry about that! There are some interesting things happening for sure today. I am still going to need as many people as possible to help with this information gathering from these stings. I will hopefully have all of the data entry forms for all stings ready by weeks end
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Talkn StangOctober 8, 2013 at 1:31 AM
i have lost one of my pet opossum's, i am so bummed......its time for talknstang to take a break for a while.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 8, 2013 at 5:37 AM
Sorry to hear
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Talkn StangOctober 8, 2013 at 11:14 PM
i'm still around, just can't find my critter, its killin me
here's the sign up sheet for the documentary again
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1b0RK9W0XkR3vhDWY8DfxQCuJOlx03Qf8D4_Y31QA9RI/viewform
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 9, 2013 at 6:07 AM
Everyone please stop freaking out about the comments. All 1,510 comments are in tact and as soon as a problem is fixed, the 113 recent comments will be on here.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 9, 2013 at 6:15 AM
NEW CASE LAW ADDED TO THE CASE LAW LINKS PAGE SO PLEASE READ IT. See State v. Duke. (Traveling is mere planning and not an overt act neccessary to prove a solicitation.) Therefore, we could have a serious problem with double jeopardy!
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 9, 2013 at 11:25 AM
The problem with that case link is that legislature has made is so that even talking online with a minor is now a felony and they can get you with that even though you did not travel
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 9, 2013 at 4:29 PM
Well kind of, sort of. Like with anything in law the pure language of the statute is meaningless when you start talking about "why". I just was informed by a defense attorney the other day that we might have a conundrum on our hands concerning solicitation and traveling. The statutes might be unconstitutional for violation of double jeopardy and while the Duke case was talking about attempted sexual battery (which Pamblanco steps in and resolves in our favor) we are not talking about solicitation but ATTEMPT solicitation because of the undercover officer being the recipient and not a minor.
A couple of Supreme Court cases opine that in order to be guilty of solicitation you MUST commit an overt act that proves the intent of those solicitations. (While people are getting arrested at their houses and places of employment, they shouldn't be as these arrests are more illegal than the typical traveler.) The overt act MUST show the firmness of your criminal intent that may or may not be evident in the solicitations. CONSEQUENTLY, IN ORDER TO BE GUILTY OF TRAVELING, YOU MUST SOLICIT!
Therefore, while the pure language of the statutes might imply that someone can be found guilty of traveling and solicitation, there is no way for someone to be guilty of traveling without solicitation first or, vice versa, solicitation without traveling. Therefore, knowing that the reason for writing the statutes was to support the illegal stings, the only thing they had in mind when writing them is how to stack multiple charges from the same criminal episode thereby violating double jeopardy and inducing defendants to plea. LEGALLY, THE SAME ELEMENTS ARE NEEDED TO PROVE SOLICITATION AND TRAVELING AND YOU CAN'T BE GUILTY OF ONE IF YOU ARE NOT GUILTY OF BOTH.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 9, 2013 at 4:32 PM
I.e. The statutes are poorly written due to the financial gain in mind.
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Talkn StangOctober 9, 2013 at 5:55 PM
the overt act is when they tell you to bring stuff like condoms, etc. and then they report it to the media that those arrested were ready and willing to follow through with their intentions. I have not seen one report/story that says states the truth about law enforcement being the ones that are doing this. This is just another way you get suckered into looking guilty as sin. It is a devious plan indeed, and even sinister when the carry it out!
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personOctober 9, 2013 at 7:57 PM
use duke for 800.04 charges; e.g. attempted l&l/sexual battery.
Duke was charged with three counts of attempted sexual battery on a child pursuant to sections 800.04(3); 777.04 (1995).
it's not for 847 charges; i dont think those existed in 1995, anyway.
what determines what an overt act is will depend on the specifics of your case/situation. that's how the court is likely to respond to duke ;however, use it, and don't just lie down and let the prosecution or court tell you what an overt act is if it goes against logic or leaves "a reasonable doubt". they'll tell you that when they placed their solicitation as "sex with no strings attached" that it doesn't mean sex, and redefine the english language only in their favour. i think that's the prosecution's idea of "facts viewed most favourable to the state" (if you're raising an entrapment defence). they're being allowed a ridiculous amount of "latitude" that denies "fair" judgement, and you need to make sure your attorney is a brawler against that.
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aladdinOctober 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM
The first thing to remember about this is you're talking about multiple statutes each with unique statutory provisions and requirements and there is absolutely nothing that says one has any bearing on the others.
Duke was charged with three counts of attempted sexual battery which means he was tried not for sexual battery, FS 800.04(3) but criminal attempt, FS 777.04(1). That in turns means the State was not required to prove any elements of sexual battery, only that there was an intent to commit a crime and the defendant performed an overt act beyond preparation and planning towards the commission of that crime. The Duke court concluded that discussing sexual acts with "Niki", planning the occasion to carry out those acts and traveling to a prearranged location did not constitute an overt act and in doing so also noted policing the internet was something the legislature should consider addressing which the legislature then did with FS 847.0135(3) and FS 847.0135(4), the internet solicitation and traveling statutes.
In these new internet statutes, discussing sexual acts with Niki and planning the occasion to carry out those acts is illegal behavior and traveling to a predetermined location is illegal under 847.0135(4). Under these statutes it's even illegal to attempt to do any of those things. Unlike the attempted sexual battery Duke was charged with, attempt under these statutes has absolutely NOTHING to do with criminal attempt FS 777.04(1) making any discussion of an overt act meaningless. These statutes were written to specifically obliterate any chance of using the Duke opinion as a defense to these charges.
Criminal solicitation in Florida is codified under FS 777.04(2) and like criminal attempt it does require an overt act however just like criminal attempt FS 777.04(1) has absolutely NOTHING to do 847.0135, criminal solicitation 777.04(2) has absolutely NOTHING to do 847.0135. These statutes even take things 3 steps farther by not only criminalizing solicitation but also seduction, luring and enticing so even if the criminal solicitation statute FS 777.04(2) had some bearing on solicitation under 847.0135 it still wouldn't matter.
To make things even more confusing there is a third version of solicitation that is sometimes used. This brings us to the Pamblanco opinion. Pamblanco was not charged with any form of criminal attempt or criminal solicitation nor does the opinion address criminal attempt. The court even took extra care to explain that their opinion did not address criminal attempt FS 777.04(1) because neither party briefed that issue. Specifically Pamblanco was charged and tried for FS 800.04(6)(2) Solicitation of a child under the age of 16 to commit a lewd or lascivious act. An entirely self contained and completed criminal act. This differs from criminal attempt because it is a completed crime. It also differs from criminal solicitation because as the court noted FS 777.04(2) requires a defendant to solicit another to commit a crime. Legally speaking a minor can have sex with an adult without any legal repercussions for the minor because there is no law that makes it illegal for the minor to do so. It's only illegal for the adult ergo criminal solicitation under FS 777.04(2) is impossible and has absolutely NOTHING to do with solicitation under FS 800.04(6)(2). Due to the strict construction of FS 800.04(6)(2) the Pamblanco court found that an actual person under the age of 16 had to be solicited in order to be convicted of that completed crime and the State was unable to prove Pamblanco ever solicited a person under the age of 16.
Five different statutes, three different legal standards for solicitation, two different legal standards for attempt and none of them have any bearing on any of the others.
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Talkn StangOctober 9, 2013 at 8:45 PM
i was just using that as an example. Believe me, the "condom" thing is deliberate in order to shock the public. They mention it on every single sting report. They're statements are like a broken record and very predictable now. The big question is, what is their next move? I think they are going to stop the reporting altogether, or try to anyway! They have to keep that funding gong. No arrest = no money!
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personOctober 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM
...and that's why it's important for them to understand the way the men became in contact with law enforcement: law enforcement posted a solicitation for a casual sexual encounter between strangers under the guise of adults; with that understanding, condoms are obligatory in such a situation.
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aladdinOctober 9, 2013 at 9:40 PM
The guiding opinions for determining an overt act required for a criminal attempt charge under FS 777.04(1) in these cases are:
State v. Duke, 709 So. 2d 580 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 1998
Hudson v. State, 745 So. 2d 997 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 2nd Dist. 1999
Bist v. State, 35 So. 3d 936 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2010
Carlisle v. State, 105 So. 3d 625 - Fla: Dist. Court of Appeals, 5th Dist. 2013
The unarguable common factor for all of these cases concerns the creation of physical proximity to the alleged victim. Duke was not close enough as he did not travel to the alleged victim's home but instead to a parking lot near her home. Hudson provided a plane ticket, travel money and arranged for a taxi to bring the alleged victim to his home to create the physical proximity. Bist drove to the home of the alleged victim and rang the doorbell and Carlisle drove to the home of the alleged victim. Coincidently Hudson is also the case that established that the police may use a decoy and still convict a defendant of criminal attempt of a lewd or lascivious act. There is no conflict with Pamblanco because as stated in an earlier post, Pamblanco does not address this issue.
They ask defendants to bring condoms, candy, lubricant etc not to create an overt act but because bringing such things "speaks to the intent and depraved heart of a would be abuser" and it plays well in a press conference.
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aladdinOctober 9, 2013 at 10:09 PM
There may be a double jeorpardy argument for defendants facing an 847.0135(3) charge and an 847.0135(4) charge. To date the State has been able to charge defendants with both because 847.0135(4) has an element that 847.0135(3) does not, traveling. Normally that would be enough to defeat a double jeopardy claim however 847.0135(3) is a Felony 3 offense and 847.0135(4) is a felony 2 offense making it a greater offense. According to Florida Statute 775.021 double jeopardy attaches when "Offenses which are lesser offenses the statutory elements of which are subsumed by the greater offense." which seems to be a possibility here.
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Talkn StangOctober 10, 2013 at 9:22 AM
that is a very good point, and we will get an attorney on top of that ASAP
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Jenn McKeeOctober 9, 2013 at 7:56 AM
He was charged with sexual battery which doesn't seem that it would apply to solicit or travel? Or does it?
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Jenn McKeeOctober 9, 2013 at 9:02 AM
Charges 847.035 can't use that. Thought I had it:(
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personOctober 9, 2013 at 10:40 PM
study each of the 847.0135 charges of your case. break them down and match if the evidence meets all criteria. for example, the ones i'm charged with are long, requiring about 5 criteria to be met. for example, i don't meet the last part, "consent", which has been ignored and overlooked.
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Justice MyersOctober 9, 2013 at 10:20 PM
About the child solicitation statute (847.0135). I've asked some people in the legal field if they believe, the same thing we believe about the statute (it was enacted for persons who use internet for the purpose/intentions of illegal activity with a minor) no one does (then again some were shitty ass PD'S). But what I want to know is when was the child solicitation statute enacted? When it was enacted did they have the ICAC or Prevention Act in mind? If so, then it DEFINITELY was created for that specific purpose. Because their Standards state that's what they're seeking, and as we know every time one of these operations occur, they say they targeted people who were seeking for sex with minors. Is there anything that connects the statute with the ICAC/prevention act in any way?
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aladdinOctober 9, 2013 at 11:20 PM
Believe it or not it was first enacted in 1986 then amended in 1996 and again in 1998 or 1999 in response to Duke and two or three more times after that. The exact language is tweaked in response to court cases that overturn convictions. Relatively speaking the parent/guardian/custodian statutes are recent additions.
The ICAC program started in 1998 and one of the first 10 task forces was the South Florida task force. Back then it was known as the LEACH task force.
I don't think there's a direct link between 847.0135 and the ICAC program but only a fool would think the ICAC program wasn't considered for any amendments to 847.0135 since 1998
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Justice MyersOctober 9, 2013 at 10:29 PM
It's EXTREMELY important to let them know that the inducement happened at the VERY beginning. Because that puts (or SHOULD put dealing with these ppl) everything into perspective. When you answered the profile/ad the inducement has already occurred. Also because they have that "ready and willing" BEFORE law enforcement inducement yada yada...Start focusing on clever questions, ways to catch them in lies etc. questions that either way they answer it's gonna benefit you regardless, one simple thing can change these cases around. Remember it's not what you say, but how you say it, especially in court.
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Justice MyersOctober 9, 2013 at 10:56 PM
I also just want to tell everyone thanks for continuing to work hard, when you don't have to, it's greatly appreciated!
Also aladdin GREAT information you received from the DOJ, before we could interpret a financial incentive but what you received proves it, BUT only problem is for my particular case I may not be able to submit them as evidence because my case wasn't done by Polk County. I would do as you did and ask for the ones from my operation but my case won't last that much longer. Do you have maybe a tip or something that may help to have it submitted as evidence, anyone?
In my case the investigator lied in the deposition about the procedures, so maybe we can have him impeached (or would that be moreso perjury)? Anyway if we have him impeached, does that mean that his actions become null/void and the state basically doesn't have a case?
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aladdinOctober 9, 2013 at 11:34 PM
For whatever reason it took 6 months to get the results of my FOIA request. In hindsight I should have asked for the same documents for all 3 task forces but I didn't think to at the time. As it was the total take was 500 pages just for the Central Florida task force.
On the plus side the same documents should be available straight from the task force host almost immediately as they are public records and public records cannot be blocked in court. The only thing that might be a problem is the ICAC Standards themselves but even then they are readily available in a Florida city's public records archive.
If the investigator lied in in the deposition about ICAC Standards then with the Standards you will be able to impeach his testimony at trial. This doesn't mean anything will actually happen to him or her, it will go to the weight of testimony rather than the admissibility but it will show a jury the investigator is not truthful and cast doubt on any testimony the investigator provides.
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Justice MyersOctober 10, 2013 at 11:45 AM
The sting I was in was conducted by the South Florida Task Force, so who should I go to for that information? Isn't the task force host Polk for Florida? Or should I go to the clerk of courts or something? Sorry for all the questions some of this stuff is confusing as hell to me.
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aladdinOctober 10, 2013 at 3:47 PM
No problem on the questions, it is confusing. There are three task forces in Florida, North, Central and South. The Gainesville Police Department hosts the North Florida Task Force, the Polk County Sheriff's Office hosts the Central Florida Task Force and the Broward County Sheriff's Office hosts the South Florida Task Force. The records you want should be available from the Broward County Sheriff's Office and/or the Broward County clerk.
The grant numbers you want information for are 2009-MC-CX-K046, 2009-SN-B9-K046, 2005-MC-CX-K029, and 98-MC-CX-K015.
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Justice MyersOctober 11, 2013 at 12:59 AM
One more question I swear lol. Are they called the progress reports, or is that just what you called them? I plan on calling a couple different places tomorrow to find them. Thanks again for all the info. you've been discovering.
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 10, 2013 at 6:23 AM
I have a question. It might look stupid but i think is avalid question.
If some does not know a particular law and attempt to commit or commit a crime how is that considered. For example. In my case i did know that having sexual act with someone under 18 is illegal. But i didnt know that if someone under 18 a teenager is willing to talk and induce u to talk about sex and you talk about sex on the internet no even in person.. That is considered illegal. I really didnt know that was illegal. How this play out what can we do in a case lie this?
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personOctober 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM
sting issues
not knowing the law is not a defence.
in 800.04 charges:
1) it's not a defence to not believe the age she tells you she is.
2) the minor's "lack of chastity" meaning her intent to want to have sex with you is not a defence.
so don't focus on those. you confer with your attorney whether you should mention that to the court if you're not native to our country, but don't base your defence around it as florida law says it's not a defence.
focus on whether you were culpable or not. law enforcement should be held culpable when 1) they use the lure of legal sex in adult environments to attract men into contact with undercover law enforcement 2) introducing illegal sex and 3) prompting, encouraging, or badgering you into participating.
1) it's been ruled the lure of legal sex to procure illegal behaviour creates too significant a risk to determine whether law enforcement detected or created a criminal. see spencer and banks.
2) they're not responding to a criminal enterprise. they have not established or substantiated that:
a) this is an ongoing criminal enterprise
b) this type of sting and these tactics are necessary to detect an ongoing criminal enterprise
i don't see how they possibly could justify any of it--at least not from what i've seen them do.
3) there's a substantial alternative (financial) incentive for law enforcement to justify demanding federal grant money. law enforcement has been generating massive amounts of faux arrests, convictions, and false testimony to do so. it's no different than a confidential informant is motivated by a contingency or sentence reduction to arbitrarily target people to entrap and/or providing false testimony to secure a conviction; this has been ruled a violation of due process in several cases.
i'd also say procedural due process has been violated when they deny providing ICAC standards when requested, lying that they're not standards or providing them will compromise integrity of their operation; at the most extreme, this should be for a judge to evaluate and determine. police can't censor or determine what is or is not able to be submitted into evidence.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 10, 2013 at 11:58 AM
What you did was not illegal! Some people believe that it does not matter that it was a cop but in this case it does. This is the creation of crime for financial gain but you committed no crime! THIS IS A BS GAME TO MAKE MONEY.
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Justice MyersOctober 10, 2013 at 12:12 PM
They can't justify it! That's why objective is so very important. I guarantee you after you prove your point, they WILL say "we only offer the opportunity" (that's what is protecting them) and that's when your lawyer needs to pull out the NUMEROUS (well not numerous yet still waiting on Mr. Gennette's) case law stating you can't test the will of a law-abiding citizen. Also make sure to correct them when they call it a pro-active investigation, because the legal definition of a pro-active investigation is stopping CRIME before it occurs, so that leaves the question..what crime were you stopping? Honestly if your lawyer says the right things, in the right way there shouldn't be anything they can say objectively.
On a side note I wonder how they're gonna try to justify breaking federal law...
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 10, 2013 at 4:01 PM
Thanks averyone for the responses and no im not native to this country so i dont know all the laws. My lawyer and I are working close on this.
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Brian ROctober 18, 2013 at 12:11 AM
I read the testimony from Siperly trial. They defense for not following federal law was quite simple. He said he is state officer not a federal officer and that he did not break state law. Arguable but thats the answer you get apparently
For Justice Meyers.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 6:30 PM
How can I get a copy of the testimony of cases or any information on cases and also how do I pull up the law that is being broken? Thanks.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 10, 2013 at 6:26 AM
The purpose of bringing up Duke is to introduce controlling case law on an overt act and Aladdin has given others. However, the overt act is not meaningless because it must show that your solicitations had meaning and you were not just full of hot air. See Gladdish, US Supreme Court 9th district. It is not illegal to talk on the internet about anything or drive somewhere. See Gennette. What is illegal is the intent. I.e. You can only be guilty of driving without a license if you know its suspended.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 10, 2013 at 6:42 AM
Question ? My son was convicted of 847.01353a 4a he was sentenced and in prison how will double jeopardy help him now . If they are the same crime how can they accuse him of both?
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Talkn StangOctober 10, 2013 at 9:28 AM
i will get with your attorney and have him look into it Jenn.
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Raymond JusticeOctober 10, 2013 at 10:25 AM
ANNOUNCEMENT: On October 21st, 2013 at 2pm. at the Leon County courthouse room 3D. There is a motion to suppress and a motion to dismiss hearing for a NON-Traveler case. This case is very eye opening and has compelling issues due to Constitutional violations and blatant entrapment. It is STATE vs. Phillip Kessler. They drove 2.5 hours from Panama city to arrest him at his Military Job on Tyndall AFB. This is after they illegally tracked his cell phone (GPS) for 10+ days with out a warrant and exigent reasons. He was tracked to private locations to include home, work, gym, dinner with his wife etc.
This is a Good friend of mine and He needs all the support he can get. If the FAC and the FLACLU are looking at this please show up as well. This Military Veteran has had his career ended and been slandered all over the state for the last 2 years
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Raymond JusticeOctober 10, 2013 at 10:26 AM
Correction ... they drove 2.5 hours From Tallahassee to Panama City
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Talkn StangOctober 10, 2013 at 11:59 AM
i already put that information out in Tallahassee. Hopefully we can get some folks there
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Patricia SmithOctober 12, 2013 at 4:27 PM
I will go go to court on October 21st to support him. They have destroyed my son with these BS stings. We have trial in January after declining the so called plea offer.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 6:42 PM
Patricia you are very brave and a very caring mother. Keep the faith as I will for both our sons.
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Justice MyersOctober 10, 2013 at 12:30 PM
I have a question, is the defendant's clean past (no arrest record) allowed to come up in court? If so, then I definitely know my prior "attorneys" had other malicious intentions, because they told me "we're not allowed to bring that up".
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aladdinOctober 10, 2013 at 6:11 PM
At the very least you should be able to as part of an entrapment defense to establish you were not predisposed.
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FightingthechargesOctober 11, 2013 at 11:05 AM
To my knowledge the criminal history can not be brought up in the court room. My lawyer stated that they can't bring that up.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 6:49 PM
My son's attorney is bringing it up.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 10, 2013 at 2:52 PM
We are taking the double jeopardy issue and violation of federal law proving entrapment as a matter of law to court soon.
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Talkn StangOctober 10, 2013 at 6:38 PM
i've got an attorney already on top of the DJ issue
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Talkn StangOctober 10, 2013 at 7:27 PM
ok, let's say DJ is a legitimate issue one can raise. Then what do you think the solution is? My opinion: So the state drops or changes the lesser offense, which is a good thing since it could change sentences, but it won't dismiss any cases. But it becomes a huge deal for the state when you look at the big picture. We are looking into it
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Justice MyersOctober 11, 2013 at 12:54 AM
It's definitely legitimate, the only way it won't work is if someone has an unjust judge.
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Brian ROctober 10, 2013 at 10:40 PM
I have to admit I am lost on DJ aspect. Can you rerun that again?
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Justice MyersOctober 11, 2013 at 12:48 AM
Most people get charged with 847.0135(3) & 847.0135(4) which are basically the same charge just one has an additional element of traveling 847.0135(4) which is a also higher felony because of the traveling, which they can't do. So basically if they want to charge you with child solicitation they have to pick one, not try to stack charges.
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Brian ROctober 10, 2013 at 10:49 PM
I know this is not the same subject matter exactly.
But I ask people to help sign this petition after watching this one minute video on how minors 13 and up are being treated by the government using solitary confinement. If any of you have been solitary confinement it is no place for anyone personally especially teenagers.
Link is below
https://www.aclu.org/bansolitary?ms=fb_share_39191
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 11, 2013 at 5:13 AM
If we can get every defense attorney in this state working on double jeopardy we need to do it. We have got plenty of innocent men in prison that could use the sentence reduction or even better a new trial. We need to attack these from EVERY angle and as many people attacking it as possible. We also need more attorneys attacking the violations of federal law. Operation appellate victory is going to be a huge success. Now operation "You've pissed us off with your unconstitutional, sanctimonious, fake crime bs long enough" has begun!
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Jenn McKeeOctober 11, 2013 at 5:25 AM
What are the violations your seeing of federal law?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 11, 2013 at 6:48 AM
The federal gov knew the power that the child solicitation statutes gave police so they codified the rules that they MUST follow to keep the police honest but they are far from it. The procedures are not just guidelines but a matter of federal law so violations of these procedures are due process violations and therefore entrapment. The general rule that the procedures have in mind is that it is illegal for LE to pose as a promiscuous teen looking for trouble on the internet by seeking to elicit sexual responses from unsuspecting law abiding citizens in order to later encourage them to commit a crime. The link to the federal laws are above (title 42) so please read them and pay attention to the financial incentive in them which motivates LE to break them.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 11, 2013 at 12:29 PM
What are they under can't find link
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aladdinOctober 11, 2013 at 2:03 PM
Jenn, go here first for some information on what he's talking about.
ICAC OPERATIONAL AND INVESTIGATIVE STANDARDS AND FEDERAL LAW
Then if needed you can make sure you have the version that was in use at the time your son was arrested here.
ICAC STANDARDS OVER TIME
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Jenn McKeeOctober 11, 2013 at 5:07 PM
They never presented any icac standard at trial we didn't think they were invoved
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Jenn McKeeOctober 11, 2013 at 5:27 PM
So confused there standards are wrong they can't just go on a fishing trip ! I don't even understand or know what to look for anymore! Frustrated and confused!
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Talkn StangOctober 12, 2013 at 10:19 AM
we've only known about them for a year or so, but knowing about them and putting them to good use are 2 different things. Getting the info out hasn't been as much of a problem as having judges allowing them in their court rooms, but that has been changing for the better as well and when you look at these stings over time, you can definitely see the progression of change
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Talkn StangOctober 11, 2013 at 9:08 AM
on the DJ issue, like i said, we have attorneys looking into it and I will get back with everybody on that, but it is not going to have cases tossed out. If anything, they will just toss the lowest charge or change it, but it is a problem and a big one actually if we can argue it.
I really need people to start helping with this sting data I am collecting. This is very important. I just don't have the time research the 100's of arrests that have been made. This data will/can be used to help cases out. I would like to get data as far back as 2009, but as long as we get 2011-now, then that is helpful
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Talkn StangOctober 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM
on the lighter side of things....i went to go pick up all my seized belongings that actually required 2 pages to list all items they took. I had heard that when they raided my house that they thought they hit the jackpot with CP because i had tons of harddrives, computers, peripherals, etc, but i guess they didn't realize I was a computer dude...morons! Even better, because I have a "talking" mustang with a custom computer in it, they thought my car was some kind of mobile command center....morons! Not only that, but when i was arrested, I told em exactly where I lived which was the same address on my drivers license yet they went to my bailbondsman buddies house that I used to live at 3.5 years before that, lmao.....morons! Anyway, I found great pleasure watching them put all my belongings on a cart and roll it out to my car. In one of the envelopes is a 1$ bill, so i just had to ask them if that 1$ accrued any interest for the past 2.5 yrs. Of course, I had to take pictures of all of it lying out. It is like x-mas, lol! Frickin morons!
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Talkn StangOctober 11, 2013 at 5:54 PM
http://cyb3rcrim3.blogspot.com/2013/10/craigslist-email-and-entrapment.html
my critter was much prettier than that raggedy photograph they have in this article! geez
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Talkn StangOctober 12, 2013 at 4:40 PM
I've had one person get me the data that I have requested for stings thus far. Although we have many more to do, myself and Aladdin4d are pretty pleased with what we are seeing so far. It is very important that we have as much info as we can on these stings and it truly can help those who decide to take their cases to trial. Anyway, i still need people to research stings for me....i need some volunteers as well as figure out a way we can get info from those counties such as Leon that doesnt make their info public......we need to have them done within the next 2 weeks.
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Talkn StangOctober 12, 2013 at 11:20 PM
Here is an example of the document we created after someone was kind enough to input the information requested. We have so many more to do!
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzLomEB8bi2PblMwUzlUcWJRaDA/edit?usp=sharing
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Jenn McKeeOctober 13, 2013 at 6:27 AM
Can't read the site it's all blurry and colored
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 10:06 AM
you can zoom in on it i do believe, but regardless, i still have about 21 stings that need completing going back to 2011 and I have those forms ready to go
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 10:28 AM
i want to reiterate on the fact that this data, when compiled properly, will make a great argument to show that they are not catching true predators and I think that is pretty darn important as long as the data is accurate. Remember people, these stings are said to go after those who use the internet who prey on children. It is law enforcement who is doing the "preying"
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 10:45 AM
one other thing i want to say, just because I won my appeal doesn't mean I am famous, nor is that a goal of mine lol! (i've have several people mention that to me....jokingly of course) For now, i am infamous and life is still difficult but of course it's heaven compared to those who have been wrongfully incarcerated. Now if the media starts banging on my door requesting interviews, that could change and I would welcome that, lol. It should get pretty interesting after this coming up week......i'll explain more later!
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 7:14 PM
Ok people, here is something......i have mixed feelings about it for now because much was left out, but at least it really highlights this growing problem
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/entrapped-when-craigslist-predator-stings-go-too-far/
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Justice MyersOctober 13, 2013 at 9:36 PM
I'm really am glad it's out there, but honestly it seemed like he hated writing that article.
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Darren McGavinOctober 13, 2013 at 9:01 PM
Interesting and important article. I hope its part of a sea change in our citizens to wake up to this and do something about it!
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 9:09 PM
I am warming up to the article a bit more now after reading a bit more thorough. I think the photo used could have been a tad smaller, but oh well, lol! THe comments are positive for the most part
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Justice MyersOctober 13, 2013 at 9:51 PM
I have a bone to pick with the people who come here and want to be spoon-fed everything but doesn't want to help with anything. He asked if we can do some simple researching (not for himself mind you) but only THREE people are doing it. I don't know if you guys are aware but he is a FREE man and doesn't have to do a damn thing for us, but he continues to out of the kindness of his heart (as well as others). You want someone else to help you, but don't want to help yourselves, ridiculous. Oh and yes, I'm doing my part.
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aladdinOctober 13, 2013 at 11:05 PM
Keep in mind what Talknstang has posted is only the first part. The ultimate goal is to have every case indexed with dispositions, attorneys, motions, depositions, decisions, transcripts and anything else we can think of making it the single largest defense oriented database of its kind. This is exactly the same kind of information the State compiles to use against you! It's time even the playing field.
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 10:13 PM
We will get it done I am sure, but you are correct, I am a free man and I don't have to do anything. I choose too because I promised myself as well as others I would. My life hasn't improved any, believe me, but I am just glad the story is out and there are tons of comments already.......I am liking what I am hearing! This is a start although this isn't the "big one", give it a week or 2, and we will see what happens. From what I have heard, Nate has quite a large audience and when he puts out a story, people listen! Although much of my interview was left out, I am still thankful that we have a BIG story like this that covered 4 pages and on HUGE ASS PIC OF ME and my opossum (now deceased). Let's see if i start getting some interesting calls or emails...hmm i'll let everybody know, cuz that's the way i roll, lol
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aladdinOctober 13, 2013 at 10:55 PM
Coming up next with Nancy Grace..........
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Justice MyersOctober 13, 2013 at 11:27 PM
She'd rip Florida's ICAC task forces to shreds lol.
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aladdinOctober 13, 2013 at 11:35 PM
The thought of Grace and Judd together on the same show just made me throw up.
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Justice MyersOctober 14, 2013 at 12:13 AM
I don't really care for her either (rude as hell to her guests, "stank" attitude etc.) but sometimes I agree with her and I feel like if she heard the whole story she's have a problem with it. I'd like to see SOMEBODY put that piece of trash in his place. His day is definitely coming though. I'm a firm believer in you reap what you sow.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 4:05 PM
Talking Stang how can I find your article I would like to read it if I may. Thank you.
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Talkn StangOctober 13, 2013 at 11:56 PM
fat chance of that happening, nor with JVM, lol
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Patricia SmithOctober 14, 2013 at 1:45 AM
I don't know what to do to help with anything but I will sure try. Please just tell me how I can help. This blog and emails have helped me try to help my son and I am so grateful.
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 9:45 AM
if anyone wants to sign up for the documentary, here is the link once again
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1b0RK9W0XkR3vhDWY8DfxQCuJOlx03Qf8D4_Y31QA9RI/viewform
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Patricia SmithOctober 14, 2013 at 1:36 PM
What is this documentary?
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aladdinOctober 14, 2013 at 3:53 PM
There's a professional videographer that would like to do some interviews of people arrested in these stings and/or their families. The idea is to raise awareness of what is really going in these things
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Justice MyersOctober 14, 2013 at 10:56 AM
Well they're trying to keep public information private! After calling tons of different places I finally got in contact with who I needed to get in contact with for the South Florida ICAC Task Force Progress Reports. They told me they couldn't get them right now because the system that they use to get them is down because of the government shut down, and I was told they will call me back when the system is back up. Well they called me back an hour later stating that "those grants are closed and once they're closed that info. belongs to the department and that I need to contact the DOJ for them. Sounds to me like they talked to a supervisor who told them not to give that info. up. I guess I'm going to try and get them subpoenaed. Funny how they changed the story all of a sudden...
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aladdinOctober 14, 2013 at 11:25 AM
That's total BS! They produced the Progress Reports. The grant documents were sent to them by the DOJ not the other way around and even if that were true they MUST keep them on file for years in case of an audit. If you do a Google search you can even find the many of the same documents for task forces all over the country in local public records archives.
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Justice MyersOctober 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM
Yea I know, I called back and he said that's "internal" information. I told them I'll just have my lawyer subpoena them.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 14, 2013 at 5:34 PM
Everyone should be helping Trey out on that comments page for the story! The link to it has been added near the top of this homepage.
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 5:51 PM
wow, the hits on the blog are like 500 for the past 24 hrs. Amazing
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Jenn McKeeOctober 14, 2013 at 6:29 PM
How do you need help on comments page do you want us to talk read a lot good response . Did this just go online or in print?
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 6:45 PM
it's just online....i don't necessarily need any help. The discussion has been pretty good. There are many that understand and the others are just uninformed, but that is OK
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 6:43 PM
i still need people to research stings for me. I have like 21 to do and I am not even going to attempt to do it myself with everything else i have going on.
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Patricia SmithOctober 14, 2013 at 8:10 PM
How can I help with the research on the stings.
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 9:37 PM
bear with me, i am exhausted, but holy shit, the article is apparently all over the web already. I guess the whole world can decide for themselves now that I have plastered my face everywhere, lol. I sure hope to GOD something good comes from this
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 9:51 PM
damn, it's even online in Spanish, wtf? lol holy shit, this is crazy. If i disappear, we will now know why, lol
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reptiledudeOctober 14, 2013 at 9:53 PM
what can I do to help ??? I will try to do whatever I can .... I want to be a part of the documentary ..... what they did to me was WRONG ..... simple as that ..... I enjoyed Donavon Lace's radio show last night .... very good listen ....everyone should go listen to it .....
http://www.registrationx.net/registrationxframeset.html?../rexradio/registrationxradiowithdonavonlace.html
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Talkn StangOctober 14, 2013 at 10:13 PM
ok, right now i am trying to calm my nerves.....i had no clue that this article would post everywhere all over the web. I am not sure what to expect, but I am a bit concerned. my family is going to shit, lol
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Jenn McKeeOctober 15, 2013 at 4:57 AM
How can I help? I was going to write a letter to gov Scott and some senators in hopes that maybe they would read is it worth it?
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Talkn StangOctober 15, 2013 at 9:02 PM
if you are going to write to state Senators in Florida, write to Sen. Montford and Sen. Williams. They are already aware of what is happening
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 15, 2013 at 5:51 AM
How can i help guys? Let me know
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 15, 2013 at 6:13 AM
I bet if you show your jurnalist this store that was just post all over the web he/she will go with the story..
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Talkn StangOctober 15, 2013 at 9:00 PM
the story is absolutely all over the place on the web. I mean everywhere....its even in Spanish! lol
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Talkn StangOctober 15, 2013 at 8:59 PM
shoot me an email and I'll assign you a few stings to research, thanks....
also, i just wanted to let everyone know that I received an email from Scaredmomma earlier today and apparently she is having some health issues that could be very serious. We sure hope not and we hope you are able to recover. There is no doubt our thoughts and prayers are with you, and we know that you have been through a lot with your son;but knowing as strong as you are, if anyone can pull through you can! . Hang in there!
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Talkn StangOctober 15, 2013 at 10:03 PM
if you are a mother of a son arrested, please post a comment at http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/10/entrapped-when-craigslist-predator-stings-go-too-far/
comments from mothers of sons who have been arrested go a long way with people
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Justice MyersOctober 16, 2013 at 12:25 AM
SCAREDMOMMA I just want to let you know we're all here for you. I have just prayed for you and will continue to! It's VERY important for you to not stress yourself out over your sons situation. I know you're worried, but now you have to put yourself and your health first. God Bless.
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aladdinOctober 16, 2013 at 10:14 AM
All I can really say to that is "Ditto"
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 1:12 AM
http://www.claytodayonline.com/ee/claytoday/en/component/fullstory/304_/sex-sting-results-in-16-arrests-in-clay
here's another example of why this sting was performed....they needed to buy surveillance equipment!
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 16, 2013 at 5:50 AM
I went thete and left a comment.
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aladdinOctober 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM
They arrested another one overnight for that sting so the total is now 17
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 10:21 AM
well, i don't know what to say about the article that was put out featuring my story. I am thinking it didn't do too much or go too far into changing public perception and the focus seemed to me more about my behavior instead of the actions of law enforcement. So in my opinioin, most are perfectly fine with them screwing people over. If that is the case, we will never win and I have put my face out there for the whole world to see for nothing. I am deeply disturbed!
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM
i just heard from another reporter contact and I need a list of all those who have had their cases tossed out, won, acquitted, etc. ASAP
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Jenn McKeeOctober 16, 2013 at 10:50 AM
Wish I could put my sons name on the list. Don't be disturbed you tryed. Needs to get out on news ! All over I think only someone in politics or government are the only people that could do something. It kills me these judges officers prosecuter take pleasure in this I wouldn't be able to sleep making law abiding citizens suffer it's sick! I'm really angry and frustrated!
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 1:06 PM
we just have to have more people come forward, i am not discouraged too bad. I guess we need to look at this as an opportunity and now it looks like the government shutdown might end so we need to bombard the Office of Professional Responsibility at the DoJ with complaints
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 1:10 PM
http://www.claytodayonline.com/ee/clayt ... ts-in-clay
geez, another sting gone wrong. Nice of them to report the true reason for doing it.......because they had to have that surveillance gear! Florida is out of control and this another prime example of how these stings are more about $$$$ than they are about catching true predators. If they had to pay for this out of their depts. own pockets, this would never happen. And the below article says the reason for the operation is two-fold.....there seems to be a conflict with their true intentions! Go figure!
http://www.news4jax.com/news/child-sex- ... index.html
The undercover sting was done just last week and involved multiple agencies, including the North Florida Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force. Investigators say the goal was two-fold with this operation. First, they wanted to keep dangerous child predators off the streets and also wanted this to serve as an educational tool for parents.
More goddam lies!
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Patricia SmithOctober 16, 2013 at 1:22 PM
What is it going to take to get the public to see the lies. We can't trust law enforcement anymore. How do they live with themselves knowing what they are doing to these innocent men are destroying their lives over a bunch of lies.
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 7:45 PM
FYI, i got an email back from someone I know within the ACLU and they are still not willing to get involved, but they will let me know if/when that changes. I'm not too optimistic about that happening
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 8:19 PM
for those of you who might want to chime in at some point, here ya go
http://pensacoladiscussion.forumotion.com/t10516-entrapped
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Talkn StangOctober 16, 2013 at 8:42 PM
i still need more people to research stings for us! I have many more to do, but let me offer some instructions here to make it easier.....
Google the sting operation to get the names of those arrested. If anyone has any prior sex offenses, the article usually will state that info so make a note of who that so you can properly enter the data.
Once you have the names (its easier to print a list out), proceed to the clerk of the court website for that particular county....eg. "google" Manatee county clerk of courts
Open up the google docs link that I provided for you and just start filling out the relevant info. After each name, submit it and do another.
If there are names that are on the google search list, but not on the clerk of courts site, enter them on the data form anyway.
If you are confused about any of the info, just add whatever it is into the "additional comments" section
Thats all
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 17, 2013 at 7:24 AM
I will try to do the Bay County 2012 Sting Today
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 17, 2013 at 7:44 AM
Dumb question, How do I update the existing sheet? I am using the link from above:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzLomEB8bi2PblMwUzlUcWJRaDA/edit?usp=sharing
Mot sure if I have permission to update
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J KernOctober 18, 2013 at 8:39 PM
Prince. Contact me at codblackops2killa@gmail.com I have a lot of info for you on the bay county 2012 sting. My friend is one of the people involved in it and I have a lot of info on it.
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Raymond JusticeOctober 17, 2013 at 9:38 AM
ANNOUNCEMENT: On October 21st, 2013 at 2pm. at the Leon County courthouse room 3D. There is a motion to suppress for a NON-Traveler case. This case is very eye opening and has compelling issues due to Constitutional violations and blatant entrapment. It is STATE vs. Phillip Kessler. They drove 2.5 hours from Panama city to arrest him at his Military Job on Tyndall AFB. This is after they illegally tracked his cell phone (GPS) for 10+ days with out a warrant and exigent reasons. He was tracked to private locations to include home, work, gym, dinner with his wife etc.
This is a Good friend of mine and He needs all the support he can get. If the FAC and the FLACLU are looking at this please show up as well. This Military Veteran has had his career ended and been slandered all over the state for the last 2 years
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Talkn StangOctober 17, 2013 at 11:35 AM
we do have people that will be in attendance, i have already confirmed that to include persons that work in the capitol building.
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Patricia SmithOctober 17, 2013 at 11:45 AM
I will be there Monday to support him. Also I spoke to my sons PD and she said that the state has called for a rehearing on the Gennette case.
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 17, 2013 at 2:40 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 17, 2013 at 3:00 PM
The Trial Will Be on the 28th in the Same Courtroom at 8:30am. But we will see how the motion hearing goes first
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Patricia SmithOctober 17, 2013 at 5:53 PM
So the motion hearing is the 21st and the trial is the 28th? I'm really nervous going by myself. I don't know anyone in Tallahassee and I don't think it would be good for my son to go since he is having anxiety attacks as it is. But I will be there to support him.
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 18, 2013 at 2:16 PM
Yes, the trial will be on the 28th. This also depends on the outcome of the motion hearing. If the motion to suppress goes through, the state loses all evidence gathered from the time of the arrest, to include statement from both the police and the defendant. This may force the state to hopefully abandon the charges because they will have an extremely weak case at trial. or force them into another plea deal which Mr. Kessler will most likely turn down. I think even if you don't know anybody, this might give insight to what you can use in your son's case.
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Raymond JusticeOctober 18, 2013 at 2:25 PM
Remember this is a Non-Traveler case and they have to prove predisposition. He did not travel and the police went way out of their way to illegally track and arrest him. the only thing the state has if the motion is dropped is a chat log which they will have trouble tying to the sender, plus there is no dirty pictures sent by the sender and very little sexual talk. PAlso, remeber that this was all started on an ADULT Casual encounters Website on craigslist where you have to agree to be 18 or older before you can post or visit. Law enforcement also broke the policies of craigslist by posting a "bait and Switch" ad, which was against CL policy prior to FEB 2012
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Justice MyersOctober 19, 2013 at 12:18 PM
Yea if he gets that suppressed which he definitely should, I doubt they'll spend money on going to trial, BUT these people will do ANYTHING for a conviction so don't put anything past them.
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Patricia SmithOctober 18, 2013 at 12:44 AM
I would like to ask a question. What happened in Georgia to make their ICAC be investigated? And is their anything we can do to get the FBI to investigate Florida? Who could we talk to?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 6:50 AM
You should ask Talkn Stang that question but I think it was a simple as making a complaint.
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personOctober 18, 2013 at 10:53 AM
people, contact me at person@dubcube.com if:
1) you want to help gather info for the victims of the stings that stang has previously mentioned. i'll instruct and assist coordinating what needs to be done. this is high priority.
2) you're interested in going to congress to represent, or can donate or assist in some way.
again, contact at person@dubcube.com
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personOctober 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM
here's a link to the doc if you want to get started on it. there's some instructions on it so read them first. you can also collaborate or communicate through the comments on it.
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Justice MyersOctober 18, 2013 at 12:30 PM
Has anyone that got their case dropped asked for restitution in their case? Won't hurt.
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john doeOctober 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM
On behalf of Dueprocess, I want to make the users of FloridaScandal aware of a couple of important tasks that we need to complete. We have a lot of tasks that would help our cases and the cases of our loved ones but time is of the essence.
-Database for Operational Stings
TalknStang has started a database of Stings to began to compare information. This is one of the most important things we can do at this moment. With this information we can begin to examine the hard facts. For example we could find the percentage of arrest that are charged with traveling but later get it dropped etc.... This are vital statistics that we can use. Read TalknStang's post above to see how you can help out or send him an email if you have any questions.
-Washington D.C. Congressional Committee Hearing
Dueprocess is coordinating an effort to get our cause represented before the Congressional Committee Hearing in Washington D.C. This is the same Committee that oversee the funding for the ICAC programs funded by the DOJ. In fact after the Hearing that we are being scheduled to participate in, the Congressional Oversight Committee will be meeting with the DOJ concerning funding of the ICAC program. I think everyone can see the importance of having someone there to represent our cause. This meeting is roughly in a week and a half.
Dueprocess's original thought was to get Gary Schwartz to attend this meeting to speak on our behalf. However, Gary would not be able to make it in that time frame. Gary has suggested another lawyer that would help us and we are in negotiation with this person on arrangements. With this representation in D.C. Would come financial assistance for our representative (room and board, airfare, etc....). As Person stated above donate to the cause by contacting him or clicking the Florida Scandal Donate button located at the top of this page on the right side. All proceeds to Florida Scandal will be used to further the cause.
Another task we need for this Congressional Committee Hearing are bullet point of what we want to inform the committee of. The time we have allotted before the committee is about 5 minutes and we need to hit the committee with concrete facts! If you have a point that you think should be made to the committee send them to Dueprocess and he will compile a list. For example the current sting in the new in clay county Law Enforcement said to the press the reason they conducted the sting was because they needed new equipment. If time permits we will post the list for everyone to review.
If you would also like to attend the hearing please email Dueprocess or Person and they can get you the information on the trip.
-ICAC Investigation Standards
Aladdin has been working diligently on dissecting the operational standards and how law enforcement is violating their own guidelines they set up for themselves. This goes hand in hand with the congressional hearing and the database we are putting together.
-Future Endeavors
Stay tune to the FloridaScandal Blog for the latest information on ICAC Entrapment. We are working on becoming more organized and focused on helping everyone with their issues. Remember any advice or recommendations you see on the FloridaScandal Blog is not legal advice, only recommendations. You should consult an attorney if you have any questions on the law.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 4:07 PM
Is someone monitoring CL to see if we can call out or flag any more sting operations that we find? When can we take this to the mainstream media?
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john doeOctober 18, 2013 at 5:23 PM
-Media Contact
If you are talking with anyone in the media please get in touch with Trey. You are going to want to get some guidance from him concerning how not to fall into the pitfalls of allowing the media to twist your story. We also would like to start tracking which reporters have been contacted.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 18, 2013 at 5:59 PM
My son wrote me a letter from prison it's awful how do we go on! Helpless!!
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john doeOctober 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM
Jenn,
Nothing is ever helpless. Let's take the despair, helpless feeling and turn it into the fuel needed to embolden your conviction and strengthen your resolve. As long as you have breath in your body and a brain to think, you can accomplish anything. Remember we have "right" on our side and as long as we stick with that everything is possible.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 18, 2013 at 6:57 PM
What do I do I don't know how any of this will help its cops judges government they don't care
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john doeOctober 18, 2013 at 7:20 PM
Jenn,
when solving a problem one never knows the answer prior to understanding the problem. I think we understand the problem (illegal entrapment schemes by law enforcement). Now it's time to find a solution. Solutions don't just fall out the sky or magically appear, it takes time, thought and effort to come up with an answer. The point being none of of know the exact answer for a gold plated defense to these sting operation that will work 100% of every case out there. These tactics may seem unsurpassed and insurmountable but we are finding weak points that make the unsurpassable and insurmountable look smaller each day. Look at Trey's case...im sure there were times he felt helpless and hopeless but he pressed on...you have to press on for your son because if you don't no one else will. Be encourage and stay strong.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 18, 2013 at 7:01 PM
God help us
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J KernOctober 18, 2013 at 8:37 PM
I have a friend that was involved in one of these stings in Bay County last year. I seen someone was saying they was going to do that one. My friend is still going back and forth with the courts and it has been over a year that this has been going on. He is now going back for the motions hearing in November. The person that is doing the research on this sting please get into contact with me. My friend has all the names and a lot of the verdicts that have come out of it so far.
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 18, 2013 at 9:13 PM
I did that one and I saw the one that has been going back and forth
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Justice MyersOctober 19, 2013 at 1:29 PM
Here's some very important case law from Farley that should be used for objective entrapment. "Florida courts have repeatedly found that cases stemming from manufactured crime(s) similar to that present in the current case do achieve the requisite level of outrageousness." This is basically saying when the police create crime it is egregious/outrageous enough for objective entrapement. And that's important because the courts believe the police have to hold a gun up to your head in order for it to be objective entrapment.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 11:09 AM
YES, YES, YES! Keep reading, learning, and growing in the knowledge of the law! They don't want us to know so know as much as you can!
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Talkn StangOctober 19, 2013 at 2:09 PM
sorry i've been down for a few days.....i just have to take a break for a bit. Anyway, i caught my opossum after she disappeared nearly 2 weeks ago. i was so stoked. That is a huge morale booster for me. now if my Seminoles can pull off the victory tonight, it will be a great weekend.
Anyway, my mailbox is overloaded, so please bear with me for a bit while i take a break. I'll get back with everyone ASAP, but not to worry......its good to know people are still so supportive of the cause
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4evermomOctober 19, 2013 at 2:40 PM
Jenn, I too received a letter frlm my son who is incarcerated. It upset me so much to read the pain in his letter. I told my friend I wasn't sure I could survive this pain :(. If there is any way as moms we could start a support group, I think it could be helpful to be able to talk to someone who understands our pain.
Trey, so happy you found your little girl opossum. Having a daughter that works with animals and would give her last meal to one I can imagine how you felt losing her.
All the people figHting for our cause, THANK YOU!
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Jenn McKeeOctober 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM
Yes we need support group this is so painful! I am so thankful for all the people fighting for this cause also ! Thank you people! Trey glad you found he
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aladdinOctober 19, 2013 at 7:13 PM
Support Group for Families of Sex Offenders
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fl clayOctober 19, 2013 at 10:53 PM
test
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fl clayOctober 19, 2013 at 10:56 PM
I am one of those entrapted on the latest sting. I'm weary of scams now more than ever to include lawyers, people who say they are my friend and even old friends. I feel the cops are watching my every move so I'm cautious of whom to trust now. I will say this sight is most helpful. I have to do more research and I'm hoping it all checks out but regardless of the fact I will fight my case.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 6:48 AM
You need to email Due Process, Talkn Stang, Person, and Aladdin with all the details! Trust us, you have many friends here and our initiative is quite real!
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 2:03 PM
DueProcess why should FL Clay talk to you or those you list as friends are you a past undercover decoy or maybe an undercover investigator working on current pending cases? No offense and with all due respect but I'm with FL Clay I'm careful of who I trust and with my son's case still under investigation I'm not at liberty to discuss the details. I hope you are someone that can truely give good insight with some credentials that would prove that information. I so need as much insight as I can get to assist any way I can for my son.
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john doeOctober 20, 2013 at 3:28 PM
fl clay and ladyhawke and nightwolf,
Thank you for having the courage to post to the blog. Like with anything you have to be cautious with who you talk to and what information your give out about the situation that you and your loved ones are in. I was in that same position at one point. I can't tell you how much this blog along with the information that I have received from the blog users has help me. Remember, it cost you nothing to listen. We are not attorneys and our advice should not be looked at as legal advice. But our advice certainly is something that you can ask your attorney about, get your attorney feel of the situation and make a informed decision based on what your attorney informs you of.
If you would like email me and I will give you a call to share a little more about my personal situation and hopefully make you more comfortable about the blog. Trust me the depths of what you and your loved one has unwilling been thrown into is far stretching and will take some time to comprehend. my email is overduejustice@gmail.com . email me anytime
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 4:01 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 4:11 PM
John Doe thank you for your input. I just have a quick ques. Are you currently under investigation or in an open case. Has it gone to trial? Did you get the charges dropped? Dismissed? Appealed? I just want to hear positive news that some people are coming out of this alive and I want to know how. If you can't post on here that's fine. I'm still hesitant to post my email on the blog.
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john doeOctober 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM
You may have to take a leap of faith and email someone. We, in general, don't discuss explict details of cases on the blog.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 6:46 AM
Here are eleven points that need to be brought up before congress that we need to have the information on: (that is about one point per minute with time for conclusion)
1. The Undersheriff for Florida St. John's County stated in a press conference immediately after their Operation No Soliciting that the arrested individuals were lured by law enforcement in order to prevent them from possibly committing crimes in the future.
2. All these stings are conducted contrary to the decision rendered in U.S. Supreme Court Case, Jacobson v. United States (90-1124), 503 U.S. 540 (1992). Decision: In their zeal to enforce the law, Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute.
3. http://www.claytodayonline.com/ee/claytoday/en/component/fullstory/20131017_001_art_3/child-sex-sting-results-in-17-arrests
http://www.claytodayonline.com/ee/claytoday/en/component/fullstory/304_/sex-sting-results-in-16-arrests-in-clay
The sting was funded, in part, from a Community Oriented Policing grant from the U.S. Department of Justice. The $250,000, two-year grant, which runs out soon, was used primarily to purchase high-tech surveillance equipment used to combat online crimes.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/child-sex-solicitation-sting-lands-16-men-in-jail/-/475880/22448570/-/5e3u0t/-/index.html
More lies because they are not telling the public that they are posing as promiscuous, law-breaking teens!
More importantly, this sting was done AFTER a notice of intent to sue the state of Florida on Racketeering charges had been sent to numerous state and federal agencies including the governor’s office and the attorney general’s office! This is proof that the state of Florida does not care to fix this problem and/or the federal government just believes the notice to be fake.
4. The real and faked suicides that have occurred as a result.
5. The other states that have outlawed these stings citing cases like Aguirre and Grizzle. I think the list is CA, CO, TX, and UT with possibly two more.
6. The sting operations manual put out by the Department of Justice states on page 8 that it is ok to use teen sites and set up a teen profile to wait for a predator to contact them.
7. The procedures and MOU are being violated and since these procedures are codified in title 42 of the US codes, then it is entrapment as a matter of law.
8. The child solicitation statutes were unconstitutionally amended to support the illegal stings. Not soon after, the Florida legislators were investigated and some were arrested for taking bribes to change legislation.
9. Thomas Moffit won his case because after he showed up at the decoy house he decided to leave. Therefore, law enforcement do not care if the “suspects” still want to go through with the criminal activity that they alone created and arrest them too soon to be able to make that distinction.
10. These stings model the “popular” tv series “To Catch a Predator” that was cancelled because it was learned that they were entrapping innocent men after the suicide of Louis Conradt in Texas while S.W.A.T. illegally and unconstitutionally raided his house with him inside. It is well known that Sheriff Grady Judd met with Chris Hanson who was trying to get Judd to participate in the show with “Perverted Justice” and not soon after Judd started performing his own illegal entrapment schemes.
11. The money being given out to perform these illegal stings, how many have been arrested since the conception of the illegal statutes in 2006, and the percentage of people that did not have criminal records before getting arrested.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 6:52 AM
We need the information that we don't have gathered by Tuesday. Also, the mothers interested in going to Washington to sit before Congress and can go need to come forward now. Thanks!
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 20, 2013 at 9:12 AM
Regarding Point number 6: I can't find where it states on page 8 that it is ok to use teen sites and set up a teen profile to wait for a predator to contact them. I am looking in the ICAC Operational Standard and Procedures. Am I looking on the right Document?
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 10:58 AM
It comes from the DOJ called "Sting Operations - Problem-Oriented Guides for Police Response Guides Series - No. 6" written by Graeme R. Newman. It states:
The Internet
The Internet has made fraud much easier by providing offenders with an easy way to create false storefronts and even perfectly mimic the web pages of major businesses such as eBay. Sex offenders have also found in the Internet a convenient way to pretend that they are someone else and approach unsuspecting or vulnerable juveniles. However, the possibilities for masquerading as others are also available to police officers, so they may conduct sting operations that also use these methods of deception to trap suspects: they may put up their own false online storefronts and hang out in juvenile chat rooms.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 11:04 AM
Oh yeah and add this to the points of interest somewhere: (it was sent to me).
I like some of your points but don't forget what the Assistant
Attorney General said in that one news article about they had no
reason to conduct the sting, also where it shows they ignored a
priority 1 TIP for DAYS ( a possible REAL child being victimized, and what about asking a simple question like "do you condone law
enforcement soliciting sex in these operations" and make it aware
about how Craigslist, Backpage etc. are adult sites & explain the
purpose of why people use them.
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 11:08 AM
Remember that A LOT of good things can be said but we need to only worry about what can be put into 15 minutes and has a powerful impact. ONLY the most important points need to be addressed and this blog should certainly be mentioned because they will be thinking about our message long after the speech they will hear!
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 20, 2013 at 12:56 PM
Is that a legal guide that could be used in a court of law? Where can I find a copy of this? In regards to point number 6
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 20, 2013 at 1:51 PM
I found the guide, If you look on page 23 it also talks about trying to contact children through teen chat-rooms
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 1:55 PM
Due process what speech are you talking about is this on the news?
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 2:09 PM
Due Process sorry to keep badgering you. It seems you are a blog admin or something. You are very resourceful. How are you coming across all this great information? Are you some kind of point of contact or the go to guy for people with our same problems in this situation. I just like getting information from more than one source. When I did do research on the internet I did come across this blog and was happy to at least find a start. THank you again.
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 20, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Hi ladyhawke, Due Process is the Admin, however there are many of us on here in the same situation. We share information from many sources and use this blog as central support and information center. We are all friendly here and try to look out for each other and try to do what we can to take care of our families as well. I have used alot of information from people on here and I am currently still fighting after 2 years. it will soon come to an end for me and the outlook looks positive because of the support and information from the people on here.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Thank you Prince. I can't say that I trust you and I course can't talk about my sons case but I can appreciate your insight on my sons matter. I hope for your positive success. Now what about security from potential investigators or prosecuters checking this blog. I'm sure they know it's up and can take us down on a moments notice. How are we handling this.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 4:23 PM
YOu guys must be thinking right now who is this lady she's on a crusade or something. My son has no criminal record; doesn't smoke; has no tattoos goes to church; college educated; and is a family man; its not in his character I know he's innocent.
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john doeOctober 20, 2013 at 5:19 PM
it's not that...please understand that the traits that you just described would fit most of us who have been accused. You (and your loved one) are going through one of many stages to come... feelings of isolation, unfairness, feeling like no one is listening...my suggestion would be to read through the case law on this website, understand what entrapment is and start to think about how to apply it to your loved one's case. Trust me there is not easy answer at this time and your efforts would be best placed with understanding what entrapment is, case law, and how to convince your attorney to file the motions you want before the judge.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 5:29 PM
John Thank you I agree with your logic I will do so and discuss with my sons attorney Thank you
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john doeOctober 20, 2013 at 5:59 PM
ladyhawke,
Please also understand that in your discussion with your attorney that they may try to convince your loved to take a plea. Again my suggestion would be to read the info here and present it to the attorney you are considering. I would even go as far as to give your attorney the link for this website and let them read the info too.
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Brian ROctober 20, 2013 at 6:17 PM
Can you email me a copy of the guide?
Brian@gcrconstructionco.com
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 6:58 PM
Thank you John Doe but what if the attorney is a public defender?
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john doeOctober 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM
the same principle applies. They are probably more likely to persuade one to plea. you should find a lawyer who is experience in taking these types of cases trial.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 21, 2013 at 4:22 AM
John Doe isn't my son's constitutional right to an attorney and that the public defender has to go to trial? THe only lawyers I have found who have worked on the exact same sting in Clay have lost. Sure they got a plea deal but it was a reduced sentence to include jail time. My son is innocent were not looking for reduce we are going for the entrapment defense.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 1:30 PM
FL_Clay my son was caught in the same sting you were in I think. It was in Clay FL this past week.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 3:59 PM
I have talked to some lawyers for free counsel and they said the evidence usually shows that the facts are undisputable in stings such as this. But can't we dispute that my son had no intent to do harm regardless of the factual evidence presented?
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aladdinOctober 20, 2013 at 5:45 PM
Even if the facts are indisputable that does not mean a sting case is indefensible.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 20, 2013 at 6:59 PM
Aladdin,
Thank you for your response it was very motivational. I just need the tools and offensive tactics to breakdown their denfenses.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 21, 2013 at 5:17 PM
I have been going through this for two years! Stay strong and keep reading everything . My so just got transferred to prison . It's awful he was a junior in college. We are working on appeal!
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Brian ROctober 20, 2013 at 6:25 PM
Just curious what are the most important documents I need to get to my attorney for her to do the motions.?
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Talkn StangOctober 20, 2013 at 8:04 PM
gonna look at your info I have to double check...i'll shoot you an email
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 8:11 PM
I already told you what the most important points of your case are and the things you will need. I even possibly have given you some help. To recap, you need 1. the procedures and mou from "stoptheinsanity", 2. title 42 of the federal codes above on THIS PAGE and 3. the federal training manual subpoenaed.
These are things that EVERYONE should be using. For the recent sting victims, it helps to know that the sting was performed to buy surveillance equipment and that the local tv media COMPLETELY LIED ABOUT HOW THE STING WAS PERFORMED!
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Brian ROctober 23, 2013 at 7:27 PM
Apparently my lawyer cant write motions. Not even simple ones like provide the evidence for my case. Let people know to stay away from Julia WIlliamson in POLK COUNTY
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Talkn StangOctober 20, 2013 at 8:03 PM
Ok people, sorry i was away for a bit, i just have so much other things going on I need to take care of and I am slapped worn out. Anyway, i have more stings ready for those who can do some research. I finally have a semi-accurate list of what we've done and need to get done so please shoot me an email if you're willing
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 8:06 PM
A link to title 42 of the federal code is above just like a link to the recent story on the Gennette case and a ton of other useful information like the procedures that are being violated that are codified in title 42 at "STOPTHEINSANITY". IT HELPS TO READ THE WHOLE BLOG and pay attention to the links.
A little background on this blog is that yes it is being watched by quite a few people but they only watch it to see if we are up to anything new. THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN US AND THEM! These stings are ALL OBJECTIVE ENTRAPMENT but good luck trying to prove that to a "cop" so it's up to the judge.
This blog is also responsible for the recent Gennette victory and he was represented by a public defender so just because you can't afford a private attorney does not mean anything. We are also responsible for the MANY dropped cases and dismissals. A LOT of attorneys know about this blog and all the information on here has been VERY USEFUL. This blog is responsible for the tides to turn in our favor but it is still a work in progress and we are far from done for obvious reasons. I.e. The stings still exist!
Here is an email from one of the victories:
Dear DueProcess,
I'm the person Sivasankar Jothilingam whom case got dismissed recently in Manatee County.Your blog gave me a moral support and lot of legal help in my case.
A great thanks for your help for saving my life.Keep doing your good work.I pray god to give you all good health and wealth.
Thank you.
Regards,
Sivasankar J
The best advice we can give you right now is to not listen to your attorney and tell him/her what to do. Depending on their response will determine what you need to do to either get them "on the ball" or if you should get another attorney. Second, YOU SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT YOUR CASE WITH US (in private of course) BECAUSE YOUR ATTORNEY MAY BE LYING OR MISLEADING YOU. Everything is confidential until told otherwise. Third, read ALL the old comments that are at the top right of this page as well as all the other pages on this blog (particularly the case law links and read all the cases) because there are quite a few things that have been discussed that are working and will work in your case. (Also, listen to the radio show above because it has information on it too.) Finally, DO NOT WAIVE YOUR RIGHT TO A SPEEDY TRIAL BECAUSE THIS ONLY HELPS THEM OUT. We have your defense already worked out and can get the motions that you need filed IMMEDIATELY. Not a year from now, not two years from now, but IMMEDIATELY.
There are quite a few BRILLIANT "legal minds" here and we have been told we should all go to law school. I'm sorry to have to say this but WELCOME TO THE FAMILY and get ready for a wild ride that will completely change your perspective of the judicial system of this "great nation". However, we have come a long way so hopefully it will not be that bad for you. God speed and please read up!
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 20, 2013 at 8:07 PM
Oh yeah, and get into contact with as many people as possible that were also arrested in your sting. Believe me, it helps to have more than one arguing entrapment in court!
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 21, 2013 at 4:33 AM
Due Process John Doe Takn Stang Sivasankar J please email me. Those words from a victorious Sivasankar just gave me a new hope. I'm ready to go to battle ladyhawke.n.nightwolf@gmail.com but i need your help
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 21, 2013 at 4:38 AM
Due process I need help finding other people in the Clay October 2013 Sting and possibly Sept 2013 if their case is pending. If I can get as many entraptment arguments in court I know we can win.
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Darren McGavinOctober 22, 2013 at 8:40 PM
DueProcess could you provide me with a way to contact Sivasankar? I would like to talk with them about my case.
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Justice MyersOctober 20, 2013 at 10:22 PM
I always find it funny when they tell parents to "monitor their child's computer activities", why because their child is roaming adult websites?..NO, there they go intentionally misleading people again. Dumbasses. Sorry I just get mad all over again every time I read articles.
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 21, 2013 at 6:30 PM
It took me a while but I just finished reading one of your links to an article. It was very interesting and insight full. I’m on day 6 of this ordeal and I finally had a full nights rest last night.
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Talkn StangOctober 21, 2013 at 8:09 PM
i still have stings that need researching, i need as much complete data we can get from 2011 and 2012 especially
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aladdinOctober 21, 2013 at 11:31 PM
At this point there are roughly 245 defendants entered and just to give you an idea of the kind of things we're finding by doing this here's a sample:
Sample Dismissals
Prior Sex Offenses
CP Charges
Remember this is very preliminary but out of what we have there are 9 Dismissals for various reasons. Unfortunately one of those happens to be a suicide.
There are only six defendants with a prior sex offense. If this holds true that will mean that less then 2.5% of all sting arrest defendants have a prior sex offense.
So far there are only 7 defendants charged with possession and/or production of child pornography so less than 3% of all sting defendants actually have CP. This is blatantly contrary to what's being reported. Some press releases have claimed as many as 90% of those arrested have CP.
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Talkn StangOctober 21, 2013 at 9:37 PM
well going back through the recent comments, it's good to see things are still flowing. Other than trying to get this sting data compiled, i am going take a step back. I have to for a bit....... there are some other things i need to focus on that I havn't been and I really need to put more effort into a possible civil claim. If I don't take care of things now, i'll be homeless come the end of March! I'll keep everyone posted!
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Talkn StangOctober 21, 2013 at 9:49 PM
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/oct/20/childrensservices.crime?CMP=twt_gu
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ladyhawke and nightwolfOctober 21, 2013 at 9:54 PM
Good luck talkn I hope that goes well for you
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personOctober 22, 2013 at 9:35 PM
here's the (google) doc containing the links to the forms we need filled. on the doc you can right-click to comment on the one you want to work on so nobody's bumping heads. the (unassigned) ones are the one's needing to be completed. it's critical we get these completed so we can support our presentation before congress, or we may not compel them to do what we will request of them.
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Darren McGavinOctober 23, 2013 at 8:16 AM
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Darren McGavinOctober 23, 2013 at 8:19 AM
Hello Blog
I wanted to introduce my presence and my case info to share on here a bit more. I have been reading for weeks and am happy this group exists more than any I've ever discovered.
More than 6 months ago I was arrested in one of these stings. I am not a florida resident and was there working for a client.
I will be very candid about my case. I'm looking for more guidance and hopefully can discuss more about the merits of my defense with others here.
I answered a craigslist ad the night before I was to fly out. It was with a 34 year old woman who sent me a very attractive photo of her dressed in a black form fitting top. I was instantly attracted. When she started to bring up her 14 year old daughter, I told her I was not interested. She then said "well you're not for us" and that's where I made my big mistake. I told her not to stop talking with me (I really wanted this 34 year old brunette I was looking at in the photo) and I would consider it. OF COURSE I WOULD NEVER CONSIDER IT ACTUALLY, but I was drinking and wanted to get with this woman. If she was willing to do this she was likely to just be loose herself…so my whiskey addled brain was telling me.
You all the know rest. I drove to meet "mom" with her thinking I might do something with "Daughter" but knowing I would not touch anyone underage. I had no idea it was a crime to indulge the twisted fantasies of an attractive woman I would never see again.
I was arrested, bonded out, and have been in active work on my case with my attorneys.
I have visited with a forensic psychologist whose report on me deemed me a 0% threat to anyone. I have never had any predisposition to do what I am alleged to have done.
However, the prosecutors have not been kind. Their offer to my attorneys is a long stiff prison term (not just a couple months or years) and lifelong RSO status. This offer hasn't changed since the first time they delivered them.
I am desperate. I know so many of you on here are as well. We all know this is entrapment.
Using an attractive legally aged person to bait, and then switch, is an obviously desperate tactic to keep florida prisons filled with high bed quotas.
I welcome anyone's insight or support. I will do my best to maintain my presence as well.
Darren
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Talkn StangOctober 23, 2013 at 10:15 AM
motion for rehearing................DENIED!
morion for rehearing en banc...DENIED!
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Prince MachiavelliOctober 23, 2013 at 2:30 PM
F%^K YEAH!!!!
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Darren McGavinOctober 23, 2013 at 8:43 PM
That's great news!
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Talkn StangOctober 23, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Mail your complaints to the DoJ OPR...i just got off the phone with them. Lets load them down!
http://www.justice.gov/opr/process.htm
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Jenn McKeeOctober 23, 2013 at 3:48 PM
What are you guys saying. Darren that's awful and they are so unfair with all this . We are all desperate to save someone or our own lives . There atre good people here fighting for this. God give everyone of you us the strength to carry on! Stay strong and fight . Sometimes it feels like there's nothing we can change but there has to be .!!
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aladdinOctober 23, 2013 at 11:15 PM
Jenn, it was the State's motion for rehearing that was denied. The State was trying to to get the recent Gennette decision on entrapment overturned, Being denied in this case is a very very good thing.
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 1:02 AM
OOPS, sorry Jenn...I should have elaborated on my prior post, but Darren is correct, that is a good thing, lol. I should have included a, "HIP HIP HOORAY" at the end of it, sorry! The mandate will soon follow and the case will be closed. Operation Appellate Victory is a success and now there should be 2 more that will soon follow! So everybody needs to be real familiar with these 3 cases!
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Brian ROctober 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM
I have been waiting almost 3 years to get the full conversation that took place the night I was arrested. The prosecutor left the middle of the conversation out of the evidence. MY LAWYER IS TOO INCOMPETENT AND TOO BUSY SHE SAID TO WRITE A MOTION THAT SHOULD TAKE AN HOUR TO ASK FOR THE REST OF THE DISCOVERY. DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT HIRE JULIA WILLIAMSON SHE IS INCOMPETENT.
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Justice MyersOctober 24, 2013 at 12:10 AM
That's a damn shame! Almost no attorneys know how to defend these cases, and a lot of them will tell you. BUT it appears she isn't even trying to in your case. And she's a PAID attorney?
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 1:06 AM
we're gonna figure it out, but i pulled up the online records and he is correct. Not that I am doubting you Brian, especially per our conversation. The important thing is to keep you mentally strong while we find a solution and I am letting the blog know that you need their support as well. You are not alone and you are the #1 priority!
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 12:55 AM
Brian, I want you to know that we are here for you and I promise you we will have a solution to your situation. You are our #1 priority at this very moment! I am sorry i was not aware of how things were actually going with your case, but now that I do, we will get you pointed back in the right direction. Please, don't do anything stupid, lol! We are here for you and so is everybody else who is a part of FloridaScandal.
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 1:14 AM
i should have posted this already, oops. I'm a busy man and can't remember everything, lol Thomas Murphy v. State of Florida
http://opinions.1dca.org/written/opinions2013/10-09-2013/12-4514.pdf
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Jenn McKeeOctober 24, 2013 at 6:00 AM
What does that mean state didn't win but he's still in jail
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 3:05 PM
do you mean the Murphy case? On cross appeal, the state lost the downward departure issue, but it wasn't because of trial judges reasoning. I posted that case just so people can review it and also that there are some interesting things about that case that stand out in my opinion. It wasn't meant to discourage anybody, lol.
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Jenn McKeeOctober 24, 2013 at 5:24 PM
Got it! Just a little paranoid these days!
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SarasotacorruptedOctober 24, 2013 at 11:52 AM
Hi guys do we have any case that we can use in court to argue the entrapment? My attorney is doing deposition this week to send the motion to dismiss next week. What do you think will help the case in terms of entrapment?
Thanks
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 2:10 PM
we have several cases on the case link tab to the upper right of the page. to include the latest appellate victory on entrapment.
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Talkn StangOctober 24, 2013 at 11:27 PM
ok, i have a sure-fire way to shut down these stings....we build FloridaScandal donut factories outside of each ICAC HQ's. That should take care of it!
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john doeOctober 25, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Even better to set up the donut factory outside of each ICAC all decorated with donut advertisements, on the inside have a donut menu but after they order make their donut order, give them a nice big healthy salad....what a bait and switch that would be....lol
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DueProcessIsDue@hotmail.comOctober 25, 2013 at 6:34 AM
We should only serve jelly doughnuts so they mess up their uniforms! LMAO! Seriously though, who do we have to go to DC? Also, we MUST get those sting statistics done! If you cant access the document then find out what talkn stang needs, get it, and email it to him please. Second, we need a volunteer to go to the Leon County courthouse with a list of names and look up the case info. WE NEED THIS STUFF DONE ASAP. The "face" of this organization is getting a facelift and law enforcement are going to loose some "weight". So whole wheat donuts Stang and sugar free jelly!
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Talkn StangOctober 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM
how about a donut that looks tasty on the outside, and just smells delicious, but on the inside instead of jelly; i was thinking more like rotten maggot puss! A tasty treat for those LEO's involved in stings. yummy
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Talkn StangOctober 25, 2013 at 10:52 AM
i cannot elaborate on the blog, but the Murphy case might be our "saving grace".
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Jenn McKeeOctober 25, 2013 at 5:07 PM
Why
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Talkn StangOctober 25, 2013 at 7:10 PM
i need more stings done.....we have done many and the data we are getting is good, but we are maybe about halfway there. So if anybody is willing, i'd appreciate it.
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Talkn StangOctober 25, 2013 at 7:16 PM
Here is an example of some of the data we are collecting https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjLomEB8bi2PdGdSV1FTZzZONzljREM2Rkg0bUJxT1E&usp=sharing
e.g. since we know "pedo's" are usually said to have at least some CP stored somewhere, the data just doesn't support that, which essentially means that these operations are worthless...we know that as well. but the more data we have, the better
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Talkn StangOctober 25, 2013 at 7:19 PM
sorry, use this link....i forgot to convert it to .pdf
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLomEB8bi2PZkdjZ1ZxTFMzZm8/edit?usp=sharing
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Talkn StangOctober 26, 2013 at 7:04 PM
http://ktar.com/95/1663906/Dad-solicits-date-for-stepdaughter-on-Craigslist this is bothersome
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Talkn StangOctober 27, 2013 at 6:01 PM
i still have stings needing done.....havn't had anybody ask for any lately
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aladdinOctober 28, 2013 at 9:17 PM
With 465 cases entered we now have 27 documented dismissals.
Previously Unknown Dismissals
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Talkn StangOctober 28, 2013 at 10:41 PM
also people, we have a court out of Volusia county that actually granted the defense's motion to compel Op Standards and it looks like the state is not wanting to cooperate. This is very significant and we will be keeping a close eye on this one. My prediction.......the case will be tossed out! I'd almost put money on it
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Justice MyersOctober 29, 2013 at 6:21 AM
Are you referring to the Training Manual or the Standards we already have?
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aladdinOctober 29, 2013 at 7:36 AM
This one is specifically about Standards but the defense has also filed another motion to compel proof of ICAC training and the operational plan for that sting, Volusia Broadband. I'm not trying to be a jerk but when it comes to training materials don't get your hopes up. Law enforcement training materials are exempt from disclosure under both Federal and Florida State law so any attempt to compel the ICAC training materials is going to be a long and difficult process at best. I'm not saying it isn't possible but the odds are definitely against being successful.
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Justice MyersOctober 29, 2013 at 11:57 AM
No, you're not being a jerk, that's the EXACT reason why I haven't and won't attempt to try and get them because I know they're protected. And I don't want to bring up that we already have evidence of violations because then that would tell my defense before my day in court. So I completely understand and don't expect them anytime soon.
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Talkn StangOctober 29, 2013 at 7:12 AM
standards https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzLomEB8bi2PVzc4ci1lM0lUakE/edit?usp=sharing
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 29, 2013 at 9:16 AM
I cannot post new comments. There is a problem?
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 29, 2013 at 7:52 AM
HI guys, how can I see at a cases notes like the stuff both the police and the deffendant said so I can compare to my case? im working also on the stings I have 6 done from what was assigned to me. I will do a few other today. Thanks
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 29, 2013 at 7:56 AM
Im not sure if my comment went through here is again.. I would like to know how can I find case notes like the stuff both police and defendant said by email or chat so I can compare to my case. by the way I have been working on the stings info that was assigned to me i have done like 8, I will do a few more today. thanks guys
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 29, 2013 at 8:50 AM
How can i get case notes on a case? Like the initial conversation betwen both the police and the defendant. I need to compare one with my case. By the way i have been doing sting cases will do some more today
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Talkn StangOctober 29, 2013 at 7:09 PM
in your case? or someone else's? you are looking for the arrest warrant and chat logs i'm assuming. Those are not usually available unless they have contacted us and send their discovery to us
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HavanawebsolutionsOctober 30, 2013 at 6:39 AM
Someone else so i can see what are the differences with mine so i can have a better idea the chances of dismissal. But i guess is not possible to get that or the dismissal decicion.
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Talkn StangOctober 30, 2013 at 8:41 PM
http://www.federaljack.com/worred-about-being-set-up-adult-chat-sites-entrap-people/#respond I was not aware that they were putting this article out there since I am working on a new story right now. Hopefully we will be able to post that one as well on FederalJack. Keep a close eye on the blog people. There's a lot of things happening and with all the emails i get daily, it is so hard to respond to every single one, but i try
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Talkn StangOctober 31, 2013 at 12:16 PM
i need stings done people. We found 2 more we were not aware of as well. I am too busy at the moment We have to get these done ASAP.
if somebody takes these, please post it on the blog so nobody is doing it again
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1fpsv-yxsVFTPKbn6cmdp48aGZuwmwazzcJLclGpXK1Q/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1a3FtOadUTMhhpd81brd2X-W-jK8GE2OAG8dcfB5vHPo/viewform
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Talkn StangOctober 31, 2013 at 12:21 PM
i need Blue Shepherd redone as well, something messed up with it, that one is important because it is part of the article i am writing.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1AVZsSBDqVNu9AbvfEKL39avNGq8O_beLx92TwbDhiDc/viewform
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Talkn StangOctober 31, 2013 at 12:43 PM
here's a link to the article for the Lee county sting http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/oct/29/lee-deputies-arrest-40-online-child-sex-sting/
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Justice MyersOctober 31, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Well they're lying again. The "boss" I guess in my sting said that the sheriff's office paid for the whole operation I was in, not ICAC which I know is bullshit.
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Justice MyersOctober 31, 2013 at 3:36 PM
I told you that Lee County is done. There's MANY that are named Spiderweb I've seen three, one with 50 arrests, 31 arrests (which I can't find any articles for that one with a list of names) and one with 40 arrests which is Lee County and I have already done.
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Talkn StangOctober 31, 2013 at 6:49 PM
you gotta love attorney Peter Aiken on his blog. He really tells it like it is! He even goes so far as to post an COP ad on his site.
http://floridasexstinglawyer.com/?m=201310
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Talkn StangNovember 1, 2013 at 12:16 PM
ok, there's some confusion, sorry Lee county is SPIDER Web, There are Spiderweb and Spiderweb 2 from orange county. I'll just change the info on the sheet. My brain is entangled in a damn spider web thats for damn sure after looking at all this crap trying to piece it together, lol
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Talkn StangNovember 1, 2013 at 12:31 PM
Matt Drake, please contact me at talknstang@yahoo.com. Thanks. And congratulations on your case. We like hearing stories of cases being tossed out!
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Talkn StangNovember 1, 2013 at 1:38 PM
we are going to make a new comment page if anybody is having problems with posts not showing up. Matthew Drake, please contact me at talknstang@yahoo.com
2 comments:
Matt DrakeNovember 1, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Just got a call from my my lawyer yesterday...All of my charges were dropped...my case was dismissed and my record will be expunged. I was arrested last year in the operation spiderweb in lee county. I was never under the impression the person whom i was communicating with was under the age of 18. This was a huge shock for me when i showed up at the house and got tackled by 3 cops. This past year i have lost everything. I lost my job. I got kicked out of school (i was 24 attending FGCU) and my ex would NOT let me visit and spend time with my 5 month old son (now hes 16 months). I am very relieved everything has been dropped but my life has been very difficult this past year. I would love to see an end come to these types of sting operations so nobody has to go through what i have gone through just to be proved innocent a year later. I got a full time and a part time job today. I am back in school and will be taking the steps necessary to visit my son soon
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Talkn StangNovember 1, 2013 at 12:29 PM
Hey Matt....i just got word of you post and I would like to congratulate you on having your case dismissed. Looking thru my data on your sting, it looks like several other cases were tossed as well and we always like to hear those stories. If you could email me at talknstang@yahoo.com i'd appreciate it. I have an idea!
